As RN’s at a local hospital for >20 years each, we have deep concerns about the future of our current healthcare system. The current system leaves many of our patients in grave situations. Many are unable to work due to acute or chronic illness, therefore often unable to maintain their health insurance. The result is the inability of many patients to recieve treatment needed to get well, get back to work, and regain adequate health care coverage. The cycle is never ending. Recently, an obese, diabetic patient was admitted to our hospital without health insurance, due to his inability to work or afford private coverage. He was unable to follow doctors advice to lose weitght because he could not afford healthy foods, forced to eat what he could afford like Mc Donalds dollar menu and frozen TV dinners. He could not afford his medication, and found himself in a viscious cycle. His lack of health insurance caused him hardships that prevented him from getting well. Fourty six million Americans are uninsured as he is. For those who are insured, premiums are growing four times faster than wages. Recently, a colleague of mine had surgery at the hospital where he worked most of his working life. He was shocked when he received a bill from the hospital that employs him and provides his health insurance for > $3000 in expenses uncovered by his health insurance. For some, this amount may seem small, but for many, half of all personal bankruptcies stem from medical expenses.
We are quite upset with the lack of progression on this issue. We WANT reform. We WANT public option. Our healthcare system is broken, and American families and businesses urgently need a solution. In 2005, the U.S. spent more than double the median per capita spending of the 30 industrialized nations that make up the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. Americans deserve better than this. President Obama has challenged Congress pass real health care reform in 2009. Unfortunately, Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats cannot seem to put aside issues of power, control, and their desire to see President Obama’s policy defeated. Instead, they trust and communicate information obtained from a consulting firm called the Lewin Group, a subsidiary of an insurance firm called United Health Group, who, in Jan., 2009 paid a $400 million settlement for defrauding patients. Hardly reliable information. They should be interested in the well being of their constituents, and of all Americans. Isn’t this what is what’s most important? Where was the concern over cost while spending unreasonable amounts of money on the current broken system over past several decades?
Congress must pass real health care reform in 2009 to ensure quality, affordable healthcare for all Americans.

I stand behind you as a fellow nurse in the trenches of the health-care wars.

If you two really believe Obama is working in your best interest, you are fools.  Obama could have pushed for tort reform which would have brought down insurance premiums, and also the price of healthcare for the uninsured, but your messiah, having been purchased by trial lawyers now has a favor or hundred to repay.  



Obama's primary concerns are growing government and breeding dependency.  Government healthcare or not, he must raise taxes to pay for EXISTING programs.  Just where do you think the additional funds will come from?  



You think people are hurting for healthcare now, wait until rationing begins.  



Our system is broken?  Name one thing that the government has un-broken.



THE PERFECT IS THE ENEMY OF THE GOOD



Tatoo that on your foreheads, then go study mathematics, economics and history. Obama's ideas are not new, they're older than our founding fathers and they have a track record of failure hundreds of years old. Obama is the guy the fathers warned us about, but serfs like you willingly trade your freedoms for promises of security that can't be kept. You deserve everything that's coming to you.

The problem isn't just in the health care system, it's the underlying economic system that allows some to have so much and others to have so little. We no longer seem to have compassion for each other as we all try to get rich.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment


Gee, ya think it's just our government, sub?

I'm for tort reform.I wasn't aware that it was removed from any one of the many ideas that are being hashed out. I don't think that PRESIDENT OBAMA is owned by any lawyers. But i know that there are plenty of REPUBLICANS that are bought by insurance groups.
Since i take care of patients i see the affects that our inadequate health insurance system imposes on patients in countless ways. When people get admitted for stroke,elevated blood pressure,or sugars etc. Often they can't afford medications to treat these chronic condition.So we treat them,swallow the cost,and send them on their way,until it happens again.So,yes,our system is broken. Will the government do any better? Yes!!! The reason is because the insurance companies only care about profit.( A 155% increase from last year). Know wonder that they can pay 1.5-2 millions dollars a day to line the pockets of REPUBLICANS and lobbyists.
Also,if your satisfied with your insurance and don't want the government's plan,you will have the option to keep your own insurance. Insurance companies need some competition..

Yes,our forefathers did warned us against your party. A party that only cares about big business and banks.A party that enjoys screwing the middle class and keeping the very rich and making them richer.Yes, our founding fathers did warn us about your party,and not about a party that wants to help AMERICAN people that are in need.
The REPUBLICAN stinking conservative views about less spending,tax cuts, religion,and hosts of other ideas. In the past 8 years this party has spent money like there is no tomorrow,while cutting taxes for large companies. They talk about God and family values while REPUBLICAN senators are having affairs with married woman.WHAT HYPOCRITES!!!!!
I know what you can TATTOO to your forehead..."SUCKER"!!!

Health insurance company gravy isn't dripping off just republican chins these days. Plenty of Democrats have bellied up to the gravy trough. Max Baucus is a prime example.
http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/2009/053109Zeese.shtml




Obunko, Reid and Pelosi are going to foist a piece of poop off on you then blame republicans.

Some dems are just as bad,especially the blue dog dems.

Blue Dog Dems are the only ones with a single ounce of integrity. They want to know how this is going to be paid for. Why don't you???

Yes, i want to know how all of this is going to be paid for. But some,not all,of the blue dog's pockets are being lined with insurance money...

So is everyone else's. And not the point.

You rail against Republicans. The Dems are in total power - Prez plus both houses of Congress. They should be able to do whatever they want. But they don't want to do it unilaterally, because they don't want the blame if the plan they pass turns out worse than what we have.

The Blue Dogs are the voice of reason. And the Congressional Budget Office. When they figure out how to pay for the revamping of healthcare, they will cast their vote. This whole push and rush and throw anything together and compromise and drop important things just for the sake of setting some kind of record for Mr. Obama is not the way to put a working, workable plan in place! I want a good plan. I want the right plan. I don't want just any stupid plan just so the Prez can strut.

They are now talking about dropping the public option! Are you good with that????? I am not. Isn't that the whole point? And dropping that will put everyone at the mercy of the insurance companies again. What is the point then?

The rush to get it through was to keep everyone working. I believe it was a ploy. You let congress and the senate to sit,and nothing will get done..I certainly hope the blue dogs will vote on the side of health care reform..I too want a good plan,with a public option,anything less would be useless. I believe the prez will not accept anything less,also. He's been preaching about a public option,and cost containment.. If that isn't part of the bill then he won't sign it..I have all the faith that he will get a good plan with public option,or he will knock some heads...

From your lips to God's ears ...

AMEN!!!

The idea behind the rush to pass it was so nobody would have time to read it.  Now that even the Democrats turned against Obama, and everyone has time to read this bill, it doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell.  Just like with Bush and Paulson and the bailout, there was a manufactured emergency and a sense of panic and urgency to ram a HORRIBLE bill down our throats.  I'm glad it didn't work this time.  

I'm a conservative, but I'm definitely not married to the republican party, and I know their s$#% stinks too.  The worst thing you can do is fall into the R vs. D trap.  Believe me, you are much better off with the insurance company of your choosing than a government plan.  And no, you will NOT be able to keep your private insurance.



A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take everything you have.  

Those of you willingly submitting to the government because you think it's going to take care of you, make me sick.

Horsepucky. It costs far less to eat healthy than to eat pre-packaged, processed crap high in carbs and cholesterol, especially fast "food". If he could afford to drive himself to the store to buy a TV dinner he could buy himself a store-made salad. I am in the same boat and I save lots of money now that I eat healthier.

He couldn't afford to lose weight? Give me a break!  By the way, Jim, do you know what happens to obese people under England's socialized healthcare?  They're DENIED COVERAGE.

Interesting how you twist the facts to suite your argument.


Fact

Three H/A have denied surgical treatment to patients who need hip or knee replacement's until they lose some weight.

Something is not correct about this story. If he was unemployed then he had no income and should qualify for assistance, including medical assistance. If he had some income then he could apply for Adult Basic and paid a nominal monthly premium to get medical coverage.

There are numerous programs out there to help people. They need to take the time to research and explore and find a way to help themselves.

When someone rushes to get something done, it usually is not done very well. Is this what we want for health care? Insurance is only part of the problem. It is a complex issue and needs a complex answer. Not a simple band aid so the President can check off another one of his campaign promises and the politicians can brag about it in the next election. Put the politics aside and come up with a good solution to the problem that includes insurance, pharma and medical providers. This will help our country in the long run.

I was thinking the same thing. If you are disabled, don't you receive medicare? And under the versions of the plans being proposed right now from Obama, I don't believe people will just receive "free" insurance. There would still be payments.



I can tell you from personal experience, it is not cheaper to eat at McDonalds, even the dollar menu, than it is to purchase healthier options at the grocery store. That is an out right excuse. Can you buy the best cuts of meat for that price? Probably not, but there are thousands of other options.

He was a morbidly obese man that had difficulty moving around...Yes,it's cheaper to buy processed foods,high in carbs,than to buy fruits and vegetables. This is true even if your not obese,but live at a poverty level..
Well,this is not England,and with a public option he would be treated. Just like we're not going to kill off the elderly..It's just another scare tactic for the sick,conservative,REPUBLICAN PARTY,and their talking heads..

But they are the Party Of Jesus. Jesus surely wouldn't want to heal the sick for free. He would call them moochers and UnAmerican.
See you can pray to Jesus and still be on the side of those who exploit the meek and lowly.
As long as you got yours.

I don't think the story about the diabetic man is inaccurtate. Yes, you do qualify for medicare if you are disabled. Medical assistance will cover hospitalization but falls down in the outpatient areas. One would get insulin and syringes, but a glucometer and foot care or eye care can be a different story. I know that there are any of a number of places where one could live and it would be easier to walk to a local sandwich shop than get to a grocery store.

But the essence of the story is that insurance is tied to employment and the cost of insurance if you have a preexisting condition is sky high. It is expensive to COBRA insurance. Small companies can ill afford to bring someone aboard who will drive up their group rates.

I'm also concerned that a public option may be left out.

Obama has been railing against the lack of price competition in Medicare part D and has refused to take money from pharmaceutical company PAC's. He started quite some time ago talking about cutting the incentives for Medicare replacement plans. He is not beholden to the drug and insurance industries.

The national insurance exchange is a good idea. It will help individuals and small businesses to obtain affordable insurance. The idea that private insurance is disallowed is wrong (some have used the word lie). I will try to start a separate thread about that, but you can go to politfact.org or a video on CNN's web site for an explanation.

The plan was never going to be rushed through..Let's give this very intelligent prez the benefit of doubt. He was trying to push them,because if you let congress and the senate sit on things, they will sit on things..Nothing would get done at least not for a very long time. He's not going to sign a bill,especially one that is as big as health care reform,that is half cocked..It will only hurt him and the american people..

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/

It makes me very angry that this man abused his body and now someone, anyone other than him, has to be blamed. Someone else will pay to clean up his mess. And if he can't move, clearly he can't work and that means he probably doesn't have insurance. One of the biggest problems of our healthcare problem is lack of personal responsibility. We're a country that has an estimated [i]66 percent of U.S. adults that are either overweight or obese[/i]!!! It's absolutely disgraceful and obesity-related health problems are an enormous drain on the healthcare system. People want to sit around and gripe about healthcare, but don't want to put themselves in a position to not need it.

With statements like that, you are part of the problem rather then the solution.



Health insurance companies are "making record profits, right now." FALSE

Seems Ms. Newswanger is quite mistaken. Goes to credibility your honor.

155% profit..1.5-2million dollars a day to pay lobbyist to stop health care reform.. Looks to me like they're not having any problems with cash..

Obesity is becoming a big problem in this country.Fast foods,cheaper processed foods.This is just a couple of contributing factors.. Also,children,and young teens would rather play computer games or watch mtv than go out and run,ride bikes,play sports or anything else that requires a little movement or exercise. These are the people that are going to be in big trouble. Plus, let's not forget obesity can have a genetic component as well...

Seems your entire industry has a lot of cash, not just insurers.

Some of the top spenders for lobbying:

American Medical Association - over $200 million

American Hospital Association - $over $170 million

Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America - over $150 million

Blue Cross / Blue Shield - over $120 million

You know who else is going to be in big trouble? My husband and I. And you. We're the healthy, able-bodied working people who are going to pay for those who refuse to take responsibility for themselves. Every single one of us has the individual power to directly do something about the situation - get yourself in shape. But, what the heck, I guess it's just easier to do as one pleases and then blame someone else for the poor outcome.

we already do...

you don't need insurance to show up and get treated at an emergency room...

those costs get passed along...

when conservatives talk about that access..

they act like it is free...

i wonder why?

Isn't that the crux of the problem? No one wants to deny others the right to medical care. It comes down to what is fair and equitable for the majority of people. There is a reason that insurers don't insure high risk people. They would go bankrupt. Then everyone would be without insurance. That is why a complex solution is needed. You can't simply give everyone health insurance. It would only be a short-term fix. The solution needs to be one that includes insurance reform, controls on medical costs and personal responsibility.




duh...

it is free for those who don't pay their bills...

once again...

liberal soundbites...

part of the problem...

not the solution...

YEA, and lining the pockets of many politicians..Doesn't it warm your heart to see this kind of money. IT SUCKS BIG TIME!!!!

It is why greed and self interest rule politics today. No matter what party your belong. Good luck seeing any change.

yes...because calling b-s on conservatives is sooo partisan...

lol...

meanwhile...

Anti-health care protesters hang freshman Democrat in effigy.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/28/dem-effigy-afp/


gop: we can dish it out....but we can't take it...

Is health care a privilege or a right?

I can't say how the UK and Canadian systems are but wonder why the people are stuck on "examining"and comparing only 2 systems.I lived in Germany twice (not counting military and embassy days)for a total of24years and now have been in Spaih(second time)for 15years and have also used the French system due to injuries of players while coaching.None seem to have been guilty of the horrible socialist crimes many of our naive and all-too-often gullible TB specialists.In fact,while living in Cologne from 1973-84 I lived with a doctor family(father,mother and now son all were/are doctors).Naturally there were complaints but in Germany denial of operations,etc.would not have been on the agenda.
The only real negative change there is that the prescription drugs are no longer free(co-pay)and that imo the insurances cover things too unnecessary.
Presently,I am insured in Spain where prescription drugs are free to those over 65 and co-pay for those younger.Compared to what onde pays for medical insurance in the US,it is a gift here.
I won't go into details now as we are now on way to return to Barcelona after 3weeks ...including a family wedding Saturday in Ephrata.

and denying care to qualified subscribers can increase the profit margin...

so its a win-win...

/sarcasm off

lol...





lol...

pointing out how empty republican talking points are, is not helpful to republicans...

got it..

LOL...

no wonder why few trust republicans to solve any problem..

On Healthcare, Americans Trust Physicians Over Politicians - Gallup 6/17/09

obama 58%......Dems in Congress 42%....drug companies 40%...insurance co.'s 35%...

and last and least trustworthy?

gop 34%

ouch...

Well said!! Have a safe trip...


You are sooooo right!!!!

Wow Jim, it's painfully obvious that the real problem (in your opinion) is that there are Republicans alive and breathing. Why is it that the "open-minded", "free-thinking" and "tolerant" Liberals spew the most hate and disrespect when anything close to conservative ideals come up in conversation? I am not going down the R vs. D road, but instead want to affirm Subsonix and Ceejay and others. I don't care what political party is in power, the government has never and can never run a business like a private company. Look at Social Security. What started out as a stop gap turned into a lifestyle with a very dim future. I certainly think that there are big problems with our current system and that changes must be made. But I am POSITIVE that the answer is NOT to start another runaway government program.

One of the problems is that THE REPUBLICAN PARTY twist and turns the truth around to suit their needs.If that isn't good enough then they use fear tactics to get everyone excited.. Liberals have no problems with conservative ideas to help improve things;but its the same old warn out ideas.Then if liberals don't agree with these same old ideas your party resorts to fear mongering. Also,Let's not forget spending. Ohh,but there is such an uproar when we initiate a stimulus bill to help save the economy and that it costs so much money. THE OUTRAGE!! Well wear was the OUTRAGE when the conservative party was spending money like there was no tomorrow. All the while cutting taxes for the richest 2% of the country..
These private companies are only after profits.They could care less about your situation or my situation or anybody's situation. It's a business. Its time to have someone on our side,even if its government..

I believe the prez will make sure its cost effective,competitive,and for the american people that need it..

Is it wise to keep the same health care system that we have? It is non sustainable.Costs are going up,while coverage is shrinking..

You keep forgetting that the Democrats are completely and totally in charge with a filibuster-proof majority, and have been since January. Exactly how is it still the Conservatives and the Republicans who are the problem? Heck, you even have a Democrat Governor! And get together the Top Ten administrators at your hospital and find out who they voted for!

And your morbidly obese man has a good criminal case if those horrible Republicans held him down and force-fed him junk food.


As they well should! Morbidly obese people are at much greater risk from general anesthesia and post-op complications including pneumonia. And any orthopod or PT worth his salt will tell you that rehab would be impossible for a morbidly obese person, making the surgery a waste of time.

I don't see it anywhere the constitution.  ACCESS to healthcare may be a right, but it doesn't mean it should be free.  Hell, you can't live without food and water, but they aren't free.

Also, the fact that healthy foods might have a higher cost per calorie than fast food doesn't mean you can't afford healthy food.  It's possible to stay at a normal weight by eating your normal caloric intake in fast food.  This guy's problem was he was eating WAY too many calories and became morbidly obese.  I'd argue that even if a 4000 calorie McDonald's diet costs as much as a 2500 healthy food diet, his problem was that he was shoving too much food in his mouth, and there's not enough tax revenue in the world to save these people from their gluttony.  



If you look at healthcare received vs taxes paid, people who work out and stay in shape get SCREWED.  Every bill Obama stands behind rewards LOSERS for LOSER behavior.  He's rewarding the foolish by giving them the resources of the prudent.  Same with his economic policies, reward debtors, punish savers and earners.  Go ahead, keep fleecingthe people who've put off instant gratification, whether it was buying an oversized house, or stuffing your face with McD's.  Keep punishing those who've done without.  How hard do you think Obama can wring them before they're tapped out?  Obama isn't for the "little guy", he's for the LOSER.

Oh, and thanks for proving the point with your "truth-o-meter", which very clearly states that insurance companies ARE making a profit. Who has a credibility issue?

Spoken like a true republican. That obese person is american citizen,who just happens to have an eating problem,finance problem along with health problems. So since he's fat,poor,and uninsured we should just leave him eat himself to death,and decrease the surplus population..Hope someday you find out what's like to be a LOSER and not a human being,so we can follow your thought process. As i said,spoken like a true republican...

So, it is not, indeed about healthcare at all. It is about your hatred of all things Republican, and it is about the ax you are apparently here to grind.

The problem is that Liberals think that the government should be your daddy and take care of every little thing for the individual. The responsible posters on TB point out irresponsible behavior, and you slam them? I am starting to not believe that you guys are really nurses. I work with nurses. The nurses I work with are tough, no-nonsense, tell it like it is to their patients. It is called personal responsibility.

I have a great deal of sympathy for the uninsured, and for the disabled who cannot work. Operative word "cannot". Those who will not work and who make lifestyle choices that make them sick should not be aided, abetted, and affirmed by healthcare professionals like you claim to be.

Part of the human condition is making poor choices. Now given that people are the same world wide, I would imagine that the same percentages of people in Europe make the same poor choices. Given that here is the chart from Der Spiegel again:
Click to view attachment
They still spend less and provide care for all, not just the morally superior.

Although I agree with you that it is counterproductive to make the health care debate purely partisan, Jim DeMint (R SC) didn't do the GOP any favors when he said ""If you're able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo, it will break him." If this reform measure, or even just the "public option", goes down in flames, I think the public will know how to apportion blame. And, along with the "Blue Dogs", an ineffectual Reid, and Obama, the GOP will be wearing ti's own yoke.

As for "irresponsible behavior", the question becomes, how far do you want to carry that. Overeating? Eating meat period will shorten your life. Not exercising? NASCAR driving? Dangerous outdoor sports?

Yes, there are extremes that will radically shorten your life. But, and some people seem to miss this, it doesn't matter if you never smoke or drink,snort wheatgrass while you're jogging and have tofu for breakfast, at some point we will ALL get sick and die. And the best thing you can do, research tell us, to put off that day, is to choose your grandparents carefully.