The following article on neo-Nazis from Answers.com describes some of the tactics and obvious agenda of our LOL neo-Nazis like Whirlwind, Commtech, retepb and robotspyder. Be very, very careful not to get sucked in.

Neo-Nazism

The term Neo-Nazism is used to refer to any social or political movement seeking to revive National Socialism or a form of Fascism, and which postdates the Second World War. Often, especially internationally, those who are part of such movements do not use the term to describe themselves. They eschew such terms as "Neo-Nazism" and "Neo-Fascism" for a variety of reasons: tactical avoidance of the stigma associated with these terms or an attempt to avoid legal consequences in which nazi and fascist organizations are banned; actual ideological distinctiveness from Nazism and Fascism; or a rejection of the "neo" prefix, based on a wish to project unequivocal commitment to Fascism or National Socialism. The prefix is not universally used to describe Neo-Nazi groups, but some groups specifically endorse it. Neo-Nazis, like fascists and extreme nationalists, have supported racism and nativism in part of their ideologies.

Background

Groups and movements that do not include as core tenets racial nationalism, anti-Semitism, or praise for Hitler, are discussed on the page Neo-Fascism. Groups and movements that have been called Neo-Fascist but are constructed around a religious identity or theology are discussed on the page Neofascism and religion.

The exact ideals adopted by a Neo-Nazi movement can vary, but it often includes an allegiance to Adolf Hitler, the insignia of Nazi Germany (e.g. the swastika (not the type used in Hinduism, Buddhism, or Jainism), extreme lack of tolerance, the Sig Runes, the red-white-black color scheme which was inherited from Imperial Germany, and other features specific to Germany's Third Reich (1933 to 1945). This usually includes anti-Semitism, racism, and/or xenophobia, and may also include elements such as nationalism, militarism, and homophobia. These groups often draw membership from people who blame their society's problems, such as the disintegration of national unity and culture, and multicultural friction, on Jews, non-white immigrants, and liberalism in general; behind which they see a Zionist World Conspiracy.

In the United States, dedicated Neo-Nazi groups are only a sub-type of a wider array of anti-Semitic and white supremacist groups. Many of the other organizations operate in conjunction with, or at least sympathize with the Neo-Nazi focused groups. The actual Neo-Nazi groups tend to pay homage to, but are often less focused on, the specific tenets of the NSDAP than some international groups. In particular, they may look more to the German-American Bund and ideals of American Nazism of the 1920s and 30s. However there are a few Neo-Nazi groups that consider themselves national socialist.

It is exceptionally difficult to determine the exact extent of Neo-Nazi organizations, because these groups are aware that public opinion concerning them is extremely negative, not to mention the existence of organizations dedicated to monitoring their activities (such as the ADL and SPLC). While a small minority of Neo-Nazis continue to draw public attention, the vast majority operate underground, in order that they may recruit, organize and fund-raise without interference and the constant harassment which plagues openly Nazi movements. Current knowledge of Nazi activity though, indicates that it is at least a global phenomenon, with organized representation in literally every Western nation in the world, as well as strong cooperative networks and connections between groups internationally, making Nazism today the strongest it has ever been since the fall of the Nazi German government, and stronger than the original Nazi Party during the period in which it came to power. Despite this, modern Nazi groups are extremely marginalized by the stigma inherent in their emotionally and historically sensitive politics.

Significant Nazi revivalists

Significant people in the effort to revive Nazism include Colin Jordan, George Lincoln Rockwell, Savitri Devi, Francis Parker Yockey, William Pierce, Eddy Morrison, David Myatt.



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Holocaust denial

Many Neo-Nazi groups also espouse denial of the Holocaust, claiming that the intentional mass murder of about 6,000,000 Jews, many in gas chambers, is grossly exaggerated or is a lie, that the German Nazi government had no extermination policy, or at least that the extent of the Holocaust is greatly exaggerated, a claim unsupported by reputable historians. Some doubt that Neo-Nazi Holocaust deniers believe these claims, and accuse them of using it as a means to make their ideology more palatable by removing the stigma of association with genocide. Those who don't deny mass killings by the Third Reich (usually those uninitiated into the claims of denial) have engaged in pointing out alleged 'immoral equivalencies' (e.g. the fire bombing of German cities, like the bombing of Dresden, or the ethnic cleansing of Germans in formerly German regions and Eastern Europe) and/or justifications for the executions (e.g. retaliation or punishment for sabotage, terrorism, or subversion). Most Holocaust deniers are not neo-Nazis themselves, though many of their works are quoted and used by Neo-Nazi publications. Not only Holocaust denial is a major theme of Neo-Nazis, they include also other revisionist history topics to deny or downplay slavery and colonialism in the same manner.

Recently, in modern day Germany, a law has been passed stating that if any of their citizens deny the existence or the extreme scale of mortallity of the Holocaust, they can be tried and prosecuted.

Neo-Nazism and the law

Some Neo-Nazi groups espouse violence, and for this reason they are a source of concern to law enforcement. However, it is often surprisingly difficult to implicate them in violence or illegality in any meaningful way. This is because these groups have adopted a proxy system whereby organizations which the Nazis intend to be financially, politically and socially successful are made to be extremely professional and respectable, whereas other, less important organizations and individuals are almost always the ones responsible for intimidation, violent acts and terror tactics. This makes it extremely difficult to track criminal liabilities, because the culprits are often obscure and unimportant within the larger Nazi movement, and when groups or individuals are found guilty of crimes in these cases, they are almost always of little financial or political worth to Neo-Nazi goals. In this way, prominent Neo-Nazis may inspire, incite or even order violent crimes without much fear that their involvement will be traced in any meaningful way back to an organization which has a great deal to lose.

Notable North American exceptions to this fact are Matthew F. Hale and the World Church of the Creator, which has essentially ceased functioning effectively since Hale was imprisoned for soliciting the murder of a federal judge, and Richard Butler of Aryan Nations, which lost a 6.2 million dollar lawsuit after low level security personnel at Butler's compound opened fire on a passing vehicle. Aryan Nations has since lost its headquarters and paramilitary training grounds and split into three separate organizations, two of which claim to be the true successors to the group, but all of which are significantly reduced from the sum of the former group's parts.





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Neo-Nazism in the USA

See also: Neo-Nazi groups of the United States

In the USA, the Constitutional guarantee for freedom of speech allows political organizations great latitude in expressing Nazi, racist or anti-Semitic ideology. Nazi groups in the United States can be traced back to the 1920s, with the US branch of the National Socialist German Workers Party. This organization merged with Free Society of Teutonia to form the German-American Bund. The Bund and other groups achieved a limited and controversial popularity in the 1930s (at one point staging a rally of over 20,000), but rapidly faded with the onset of WWII. The groups either disbanded or were dismantled by force during the war period.

After WWII, new organizations eventually formed which had varying degrees of adoption of Nazi principles, and again built ties with older organizations. As of the 21st century, there are some actual Neo-Nazi groups as well as a number of White supremacist, white separatist, anti-Semitic, and Fascist groups that share some or large parts of their ideology with Nazism. It should be noted that the Ku Klux Klan is different from, and predates Nazism; it is not a Neo-Nazi organization. The KKK has, however, often maintained ties to and sympathized with Nazi groups, including the German-American Bund during the 1930s.

U.S.-based Neo-Nazi and Nazi sympathizer groups often have web sites, occasionally stage public demonstrations, and even maintain international ties to groups in Europe and elsewhere. However, they are a vocal few and a tiny percentage of the population. More often than not, they are outnumbered at public demonstrations by counter-protesters and are quickly prosecuted for any crimes. The U.S. congress passed extra penalties for what are known as Hate crimes. Usual targets of U.S. Neo-Nazis are not limited to Jews or African Americans, Neo-Nazi groups are known to harass and attack Asian Americans, Catholics, Latinos, Italian Americans, Arab Americans, homosexuals and people with different political or religious opinions.

A bunch of disjointed snippets of half truths, pretending to convey the obvious evil of these "hate groups". Well, what has the reader learned? All the talking points from the group attempting to stifle debate by using loaded terms.

Any mention of goals set by these varied groups?

So this is more or less another prop installed to hold up that mess of crap they already left in your attic.

I don't know how anyone could be stupid enough to be sucked in ....but I guess it does happen ocassionally.

BC is trying to incite people with unpopular opinions (myself and others) to get enraged, and fly off the handle. Then he can sit back and laugh when we get all worked up, are warned (which I have never been), or banned. Since he has not achieved his goal, he gets more and more outraged himself, and is starting to personally troll the members here.

I asked BC in another thread he started if he would like to debate the topics that I brought up, he has refused. He asked him if he could please point to posts where I made Anti-Semitic remarks, or personally attacked another poster. He has not done so.

With that said, I consider him to be a troll looking to do nothing more than to harass myself and others.

He is now on "ignore". Toodles, BC!

This usually includes
One can discern what the goal is.

One can? Singular? Type it then. Cat picked a strange time to take your tongue.

Well let's see, a collection of causes that are idealogically against blacks, jews/israel and non-white immigrants, would cite any incident involving said groups to demonize them as the source of all societal ills.
Blame just the illegal immigrants and give a free pass to the employers of same.
Blame US ME policy as an cause for concearn, instead of pointing to the actions by both sides in various issues there.
Blame Latin Americans as coming from cesspools (isn't that how commtech described it), but their noble white european ancestors (Hungary, Germany, Poland)
were somehow different, even tho their ancestors entered the social scale at the same point current immigrants do.

If only you tried to talk to those people in Givant's instead of glaring at them, you may have launched a real conversation and made some friends.
I've been to clubs throughtout Lancaster; Fairmont House, Patsy's, Manor Tavern, and was never stared at by everyone like I wasn't welcome. There's good and bad in any group of people.

Still no goal mentioned.

You didn't mention the Wonder Bar, or the Wooden Nickel. Honestly, if you go into any bar, and you are not a regular, you're going to get a look. If you do not percieve that, you must have been born without a self-preservation instinct. The look is simply more intense when entering an establishment that has a different ethnicity as a clientele. What happened to Givants? Too many sullen "urban youths" hanging around? I just wanted a quart of beer, and there were lots of other outlets for that. Your memory is pretty good, but it was them glaring at me. Why didn't they reach out? They could have given me a different impression...See how silly that sounds?



Saw a good bumper sticker the other day; If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.

Were you wearing your Doc Martens & flight jacket that night? Many "urban youths" aren't as naive as you may be led to believe.

I've been to black churches where the parishoners reach out to you and white churches where you're snubbed because you tell them you reside in the city.
All depends on the setting.

I didn't enter the bar to get a quart to go, I stayed and socialized.


What's wrong with being outraged at the decline in the standard of living for the middle class so that the rich & powerful can be more prosperous.

Ah the cesspool remark. A bit over the top I admit, but let's look at Mexico as an example. And yes, it's only an example as most of the illegals are coming from there.

From the CIA - World Factbook...







Okay, we have the facts in place. Now let's talk about illegal immigration, and immigration from third-world nations and why it is hurting the U.S.

Illegal immigration is just that, it's illegal. No matter how you want to sugar coat it, it is wrong. And it's people from Mexico who make up the bulk (70%) of the illegal aliens (between 12 and 15 million) in this country. SOURCE

Now then. We have the bulk of our illegals coming from a country where the poverty rate is 40%, there is raw sewage floating in the rivers, where only 15% of the people have a telephone, where the infrastructure is outdated, obsolete, or non-existant, and contribute significantly to the illegal drug trade and money laundering. Let's not forget the corruption of public officials and police that runs rampant down there.

Now God didn't wave his hand over Mexico, and say "poof, you're a third world country". Generations of their citizens have created the problem, or have done nothing about it. Apathy is the stepping stone of tyranny.

So now we have millions of people from Mexico coming into the U.S. With them they bring their customs, practices, and way of life. Which from a social standpoint is great, but how many of these people also bring with them the same apathetic attitude that has ruined their nation?

Besides that, I think it's safe to say that most (if not ALL) of the illegals are poor, have no marketable skills, perhaps some are criminals, and cannot speak English. Right off the bat you have an extreme socio-economic disadvantage. Right or wrong?

As a left-leaning person, cyberscribbler, I am sure you base alot of your views on matters of the heart. This is admirable, and I applaud you for that. As that left-leaning person you also abhor people living in squalor and poverty. You cringe at the fact that people have to scrape by. You try to do whatever you can, or vote for people whom you think can change that. Maybe I am wrong?

We have many, many poor people living in this country. Immigrants, naturalized citizens, and people from all races and cultures. No matter what is done, we never seem to make progress on improving the lives of these people.

So what do we do?

We compound the problem by adding to it.

We add more poor and oppressed people with no skills, no trades, and extreme socio-economic disadvantages, right on top of the heap we already have. Does this make sense?

The poor people already here now have to compete with illegals, suffer a shortage of social program funding because the illegals sure as heck ain't paying taxes or Social Security. The prevailing wage is held down, because the illegals will work for peanuts, not to mention they now have to fight to keep their jobs from someone who doesn't mind working for $6 an hour and 70 hours per week with no overtime.

Our politicians want to give these illegals amnesty. Of course they do! How else can they appease big business by cutting down all the American worker has fought for? Lower wages, cheap labor. No problem!

The labor unions keep supporting the Democrats, because they aren't intelligent enough to realize that their party of choice isn't doing a darn thing either to help the situation.

So tell me how are our CITIZENS are not being held down by this scourge? This is not making progress. This is digging a deaper hole and sliding towards the same third-world status from whence the illegals came.

I made the comparison between Europe and third-world nations in another post. Let's compare them as most people often do when they find fault with the US in some way. Europe's electrical and communications infrastructure are better than ours. Their transportation systems are decades ahead of ours, their enviromental practices are far better, and they have realitively little violent crime as compared to the US. How's Mexico doing?

So shall we continue to build this nation as our European ancestors did, or suck it dry? There are two choices. Become a world leader once again or become a nation of 300,000,000 people employed in the service industry.

I have no problem with ANYONE coming to this nation LEGALLY from wherever. Whether it be Asiatic Russia, Chile, or Saskatchewan. I don't think the legal immigrants are the problem. They WANT to do things the American way. They want to melt in the pot. They want to start off right. I have no problem with people of color who want to contribute and better their lives. I have a huge problem with illegal parasites sucking our nation dry and destroying our economy.

His entire post made him look like a psycho. He didn't hurt anyone's reputation but his own.
I don't really know you or the other posters he's slandering, but you can't be as whacked out as he is.

I've posted the same info in a thread some time ago in reply to a comment Whirlwind made. He was unwilling to discuss it beyond, "it's Mexico's problem"

I'm aware of the various infastructure & overpopulation problems in Mexico (or underpopulation problems here, if you perceive it as such).
To me it's utterly ridiculous to invade Iraq to bring democracy to an oil rich country, when our neighbor to the south is on the verge of collapse, and the ruling elite hoard it's wealth.
Harv1 has shown in post after post, where this is not entirely true.
The home depots in Arizona have built shelters for mexicans to wait to be employed by locals building their McMansions. Wal-Marts have been raided for having entire crews of illegals, as close to us as Allentown.
Highway project costs would sky-rocket (or the contractors profits would disappear) if they had to pay scale wage workers.
All over the desert south west citizens would have to tend their own gardens and clean their own houses.

Apathy is the stepping stone of decline, as well.


Democrats are the party of big labor, their stance is against amnesty. I agree come here legally, or improve conditions in your country. Unfortunately, they have little choice since Mexico is essentially an oligarchy.

Everytime this is pointed out, the republicans demoize Europe as a socialist haven. They've built up this infastructure up around existing urban areas that had no other choice - no suburban sprawl, greater development control.

I can deal with it, I am thick skinned. I've been doing this forum thing for a long time, on just about every topic imaginable, on many different boards. It's not fun to be unpopular, but it's more rewarding to be outspoken.

I just ignore the person if they resort to namecalling, I don't go running to the mods/admins. Besides, I've been called worse, by a better class of people!

And more power to your elbow for that.





Its what true free speech is all about.

The Republican demonize everything. I am not a socialist, but it is apparent that Europe is making it work. I doubt that socialism is the reason. More like better planning, better thinking, and harder work. And, dare I say pride as well. Pride in one's country, and the desire to make it better. Lots of people say they love America, but their actions prove otherwise. Jeez, we can't even build a road in this county without a huge battle. Is it like that everywhere in the US?

A buddy of mine shared a similar story about when the INS came knocking. A warehouse in Jersey just outside of Staten Island employed many, many illegals. They got word that INS just cleaned out the FedEx warehouse down the street, and the other warehouse emptied out in hours. He said it took two weeks for the illegals to finally all trickle back to work.

I agree, something needs to be done to those who knowingly harbor, protect, and employ illegals. A local farmer is doing it, but now he's hiding them better. But if you're familiar with the "old" firehouse in eastern Martic Twp, I think one could easily find them.

As far as improving a government where the people are subjects and have no say, there are ways.

Thanks for the conversation. We may not agree, but it's nice to know that you have the fortitude to debate the topic rather than attack messenger.