Sounds more like "Blast From The Past" to me.

Not sure if that is a compliment or not, but will take it as one. Thanks Neo, you can be a sweetie, (some of the time).

no it's not. i'm just having a little fun with you that's all. you're great.

i think you have eternal life whether you want it or not.



not really. none of the text stands alone. all parts have to be taken in relation to the whole. the whole message of the 4 gospels is about ressurection of Jesus and the reason why He made this sacrifice.



i was "guilt free" for quite a stretch. that was until i discovered that no matter how you rationalize it, casual sex, at the very least, usually leaves someone feeling devalued and someone feeling a false sense of power over the other person. at worst it, can lead to sexual addiction and abnormal sexual behavior which is just as dysfunctional as any chemical addiction i deal with (i'm an addition therapist). even outside a religious context, having multiple partners goes hand in hand with other addictive, self-injurious behavior and there's always hepatitus a,b,and c, aids, chlymidia, herpes, hpv, and the always attractive syphilus.



interesting hypothesis. si i can just fool my brain into believing any lie i want it to believe. how convenient. the next time i go to the bank i'll just fool myself into believing that i OWN the bank and start taking money out of the drawers. by your account all the christians, muslims, jews are all schizophrenic and can alter reality as they see fit. by the same token, i submit to you that your bleak "reality of life" is what you want to see. you don't see the reality of spiritual existence because you want to see reality just the way you do for your own reasons, maybe because nothingness justifies the way you're accustomed to going about your life. not that your a bad guy, but maybe if you believed in a higher moral authority you would feel uncomfortable and complicated about how you live at present. see how easy it is to pretend to have the power of getting inside people's heads.

your reality. you own that statement about dangling carrots and "the reality of life." i disowned atheism approximately 10 years ago for a stance that made sense of the absurdity i saw all around me and played out in the way people make the vast majority of their daily decisions based on fleeting subconscious impressions. i met people who suffered horribly, and i decided that the best comfort i could offer people who lived under the most permanently undesireable circumstances was "the carrot" your talking about. if i didn't think human life was so fundamentally absurd then maybe i'd still be a beer sloshing logical positivist.



it is hackneyed. just as the christian apologetics are. wait a minute. i just called my posts hackneyed, didn't i? oh well, another ground hog day for me.



nice oversimplification. imo, there is only one sane interpretation of christian teaching that is handed down from the apostles through all generations up to this present day. it is neatly but oversimply stated in the nicene creed.



hey, no need to get personal. i thought we were discussing atheism and theism not the life of neothink and gogol.



while i admit that free will is a hairy concept to wrestle with in the same conversation as an omniscient God, i think it's possible to see how God allows for human free and knows which ones will go bad from the beginning, eventhough it is not His intention that they go bad. without going too "william f buckley " on you i would say that, in the same act of creating humans, God knew how all humans would be judged, but His will destining them to eternal damnation is not antecedent to but consequent upon foreknowledge of their sin and their death in the state of sin. more simply, He had foreknowledge that some people would turn out bad based on their actual freely chosen path and as a consequence permitted them to be damned based on these demerits.

this is what the catholic cannon has to say about negative reprobation, and this is why it is Just for Christ to remark concerning judas, "It were better for him that he was never born" because Christ knew he would go bad from the beginning of time, that judas would be the one to betray him, just as he knows other people will not escape despair, or freely chosen separation from God/hope.

But of course, it is contradictory to have "omniscience" and "free will" at all. If God knows what are actions are going to be, then our actions are set in stone and we do not have free will, just an illusion of it. On the other hand, if we do have free will and our actions are not predestined, then the whole concept of omniscience comes into question.

i don't think an omniscient God and human free will contradict each other. God knows every one of our decisions, from birth to death, but we only know the decisions we've made and the ones we're wrestling with presently. even though some people will be damned and God knows which one of us will be doomed and which ones will be saved, a soul's damnation is not intentionally predestined by God, just permitted based on what He already knows about the decisions we made, excluding Him from our lives. imo, God doesn't predestine anyone's damnation and He allows us to freely chose damnation or Heaven. no one goes to hell unless they choose to be there. hell being a willful, eternal separation from God is just an extension of who we are on earth. you might say, "only a madman would choose hell over Heaven." you'd be correct.

http://www.newyorker.com/printables/fact/050530fa_fact

They don't say WHEN he would answer the prayers!

Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)

And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. (John 14:13-14 NAB)

On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you. Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete. (John 16:23-24 NAB)


It's implied that it will happen immediately, but you decide to throw in a he didn't say WHEN. Read the first passage above, that's where my challenge to you mystics comes from. All it takes is 2 of you praying to end breast cancer and it will happen. He's in your midst and listening to your prayers and yet choses to ignore them. Your Jesus was a prevaricator.

First you want to take it literally and now you say it is implied. And you make fun of the Christians?!?!?!?!

Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)

When I read your comment yesterday morning I was drinking a cup of coffee and laughed so frickin' hard that I almost spit it out. He didn't say WHEN. . .what a priceless answer. I know you weren't trying to be funny, but dayem you had me ROFLAPMP.

Huh? I am taking it literally 'cause to imply means it is conveyed or suggested without being stated outright, but one really has to be a two chapters short of a novel to read the above passage and not understand that it will be answered NOW. . .not a year in the future. . .not 10 years in the future. . .not 100 years in the future. NOW.

Daddyg, you can get together with gogol and ann and pray for the end of breast cancer and it shall NOT be done for you by god.

You can get together with 1000 fellow Christians and pray for the end of breast cancer and it shall NOT be done for you by god.

You can get together with a million fellow Christians. . .100 million fellow Christians. . . or a billion fellow Christians and you can ask and pray 24/7 for a year straight (shtraight for you locals) and even though Christ said god would be in your midst he will NOT give you what you ask for. That's extremely rude of him. . .you're asking him for his help and he just ignores you.

None of you will take up my challenge because you know it will be an exercise in futility but, I double-dog dare ya to prove me wrong.

Howdy everyone!

So... did I miss anything interesting?

He already conquered death for us, now you want him to wipeout for breast cancer. what an ingrate!

but seriously neo, since your religion is science or math why don't you go bother the folks at glaxo to cure breast cancer? i think you just like to needle us. all in good fun though.

one day neothink was walking in the woods, admiring all the beauty in nature. he was sitting at the edge of the stream and contemplating how the big bang created the rocks, the stream, the trees, and the sky, when all of the sudden, a hungry grizzly bear spotted him and charged after him. the grizzly chased down neothink and pinned him too the ground with one paw. then the grizzly raised the other paw to finish him off, but neothink screamed, "oh my God, help me!"

A broght light appeared and the grizzly bear froze. neothink heard a voice say, "why should i help you? you told people i don't exist. now you want me to save you." neothink thought for a moment and then said, "you're right. it would be hypocritical of me to become a christian at this point. but could you make the bear a christian?" the voice said, "it is done!"

the bear took his paw off neothink, knelt down, and folded his hands in prayer. then the bear started praying, "dear Lord, please bless this food which you have given me...."

HAHAhaha. But, as I recall (my memory is not what it used to be) daddyg posted the same story much earlier in this very thread. Nevertheless it is an amusing mystic story. Now let me tell you what would happen in reality:

One day neothink was walking in the woods, admiring all the beauty in nature. He was sitting at the edge of the stream and contemplating how the big bang created the rocks, the stream, the trees, and the sky, when all of the sudden, a hungry grizzly bear spotted him and charged after him. Neo quickly reaches for and pulls out his concealed Glock 30 then double taps .45 caliber black talons into the bear's head. The bear drops in midstride.

How did neo accomplish such a feat? Did God suddenly produce the gun in neo's hand and then miraculously guide his hand to fire and down the bear? Nah. It was neo's years of competing in action/combat pistol matches. . .run and gun shooting at stationary and moving targets. . .firing over 100,000 rounds a year. He can't recall the hours he spent practicing his skill drawing his pistol and firing at six 8" plates 11 yards (33 feet) away and knocking them all down in a shade over 3 seconds. Drawing and firing a gun and hitting his target is as instinctive to him as breathing is to you.

Here's another version of the story:

One day neothink and gogol were walking in the woods, admiring all the beauty in nature. Both were sitting at the edge of the stream and debating whether there is a God, when all of the sudden, a hungry grizzly bear spotted them and charged after them. Neo looks over at gogol and asks: "Do you wish to ask God to save us or would you rather have me dispatch the bear before your knees even touch the ground in prayer?"

Now, if it was daddyg in gogol's place he'd take the prayer option 'cause as he said yesterday in another thread (and I quote): "I can honestly say that I have never had a prayer go unanswered. May not have been the outcome I wanted..." This would be one of those "may not have been the outcome I wanted" cases.

Or it could have been the outcome I wanted as now I would be in heaven celebrating eternal happiness. Meanwhile, Neo's Glock jams and he spends eternity saying, "darn, I wish I would have believed DaddyG that God really does exist!"

Wow. I'm new to this thread...but had to pop in and congratulate you guys--

A hundred and two pages?

You guys deserve a medal or something...

Ok 'bye.

CK

sounds like fun. i only shot a hand gun once. it was very loud.



and gogol said, "thank you Lord, but neo wants to take care of this one. he's a cool guy. please don't send him to hades. "

Neo, LOL, Today when I opened the US News and World Report, I thought of you. See I knew Gogol, Daddyg, and my prayers would help!

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/artic...613/13healy.htm

Just kidding, I know what you will say; it is due to science that these great strides are being made in curbing breast cancer. Now doesn’t it make sense that the intelligence and the science to accomplish this comes from a creator?

When I "gogol'd" hades I found that it was a fictional place of the dead, but I do believe you and I will be occupying this "adobe of the dead" sometime in the distant future. que pasa?



And don't worry daddyg I would have saved your hide 'cause I wouldn't have wanted to follow a bear, who had just eaten you, for a week picking up your remains as bear dung. I also don't think Mrs. daddyg would be too happy seeing the eternal happiness smirk on your face when you have a ton of chores to do around the house.

HEY! No picking on the fictional version. I'm currently rereading the Honor Harrington series (i.e. the source of the "Honorverse" version of Hades) and it is REALLY good (assuming that you like good science-fiction). The main character, the aforementioned Honor Harrington, is well written and the story plots are phenomenal.

Also, you shouldn't call it "Adobe of the dead". I'm pretty sure that Acrobat and Photoshop are not used by dead people.

Thanks for the news link ann. Any small amount of good news is great news when it comes to cancer.

Now, you do know, if there really was an IDer that is talked about in the OT and NT he could cure breast cancer before I could even snap my fingers. . .if he really is listening to what you're asking for. If he can't hear you he's not omnipresent, if he hears you and doesn't do anything then he's not omnipotent, but if he is omnipresent and omnipotent and ignores what you're asking for then he is flat out rude. It's not like you're asking for a Ferrari 612 Scaglietti for yourself is it?

Also, if there really is an IDer why the heck did he give men nipples? Please don't answer by saying its for playing with while the wife is out shopping.

They may not be dead, but (stealin' a line from "Dawn Of The Dead") deadish. Now that's a dvd ann should rent. The movie was released a few weeks after "Passion Of The Christ." Both are somewhat similar in that they have people dying and the dead being resurrected. The difference is, in one the resurrected is going to heaven and in the other the resurrected are searching for living people in order to eat their brains. Yummy. HAHAHAhaha.

First off, “Hades” is another name for “Hell”.

Second disease, including breast cancer, entered this world when Adam and Eve Fell. But you already knew that I believe that.

As for the nipples on men. You mean to tell me they never taught you about the male mammary glands in your public high school Biology class. I learned all that in 10th grade when Mrs. Eva Lue tion explained it all. At one point the males provided all the food for his whole family including nursing the young. But as time evolved and through the evolutionary process the female mammary gland evolved and the job was than delegated to the females. Scientists claim this is actually true but have yet to find any fossil evidence of this phenomenal macro evolution of the Homo sapiens mammary gland. As the female mammary glands evolved the males became very enamored by them. However Mrs. Eva Lue tion didn’t get into that aspect of the evolutionary process, because the principal, Mr. Darvin, didn’t think it was appropriate.

Of course I didn’t believe a word of it, because I knew that during the very beginning of developmental stages of human fetal life, before the sex hormones have had a chance to do their stuff, all humans are basically bisexual. Among other things, they have two sets of primitive plumbing--one male, one female. Only one set develops into a mature urogenital system, but they keep traces of the other for the rest of your life. Therefore, the male nipples are yet another vestige of your carefree bisexual fetal life.

Now that sounds sick, not what I would want to watch.

this adds new meaning to "adobe: it's more than just a reader."

have you ever googled the word gogol?


from Greek Mythology:
1. The god of the netherworld and dispenser of earthly riches.
2. This netherworld kingdom, the abode of the shades of the dead.
also hades Hell.

Yes ann, I am know and posted the gogol graphic to bait you. (Sorry, but I knew you couldn't resist.) Hades is hell and both share the same definition. . ."a fictional place."

Oh dear, I fell for the bait. How do you know for sure that hell is a fictional place?

Give me scientific evidence.

Why do you want scientific evidence in this case when you totally discount it in others?

I was just kidding, sorry should have stated that.

Ann, how about some simple mathematical evidence?

Hades = A
Hell = B
Fictional Place = C

Wikipedia: Hades is a fictional place.
Ann: Hades is another name for Hell.
Neothink: Hell is a fictional place.

If A = C and B = A then B = C.

IMHO, Me, You, and Wikipedia are mere man, and our math doesn’t count in God’s grand scheme of things. And I know you have all your faith in Math and science, but I don't.

Actually, I'd be very upset at your 10th grade biology teacher, not for teaching evolution but for teaching it wrong.

Fact: After conception, the embryo follows the female template. After about 6-8 weeks of development, those with the Y chromosome have it kick in. However, before that time, nipples have already started forming.

So what does evolution have to say about it? Absolutely nothing. Natural selection would keep an anti-survival trait from being passed on, but men's nipples don't do anything to compromise survival. Therefore, there is no selective pressure for those nipples to disappear. They end up being just another vestigal organ (like the unseeing eyes on blind cave fish).

Evolution does, however, have something to say about nipples in general. Obviously, the ability to suckle young gives a greater survivability to the young. Hence, nipples have shown themselves to be a strong survival trait and this trait is passed on. (And has been from lesser mammals on up.)

LOL Strobe...you are way too serious. I was kidding and teasing Neo about my 10th grade biology teacher. You knew that no teacher would be named Mrs. Eva Lue tion. Right ?? Kind of in the same line as Gogol's bear story.

It was very clever ann. You would have sucked me into a response if you wrote Mrs. Eva Luetion or Loution or Lewtion. The quick read and seeing a "tion" sitting there all by itself made me stop and reread it and boing...got the joke.

I did get the joke, but all of the wrong description of evolutionary theory made me have to speak out.

Ann, the above sounds like some scientific explanation. Oh my! But, you know that God knew eons ahead of anyones birth whether they are going to be a male or female.

If there was an "intelligent designer" he would have known there wasn't a necessity for males to have nipples or a bisexual fetal life.

I see married life and getting laid on a regular basis has given birth to a sense of humor.

Must you be so crude? Making love sounds so much better.

Oops..that sounded a bit differant than what I meant. Using the words "making love" sounds so much better than "getting laid". Be a gentleman, Neo.

Sorry ann, but I don't any guy who would say "making love" 'cause he'd get his butt kicked. Maybe someday you'll leave the confines of your home and hang with the real world.

Years ago when my wife used to work at a bank they'd have an employee Wednesday night volleyball game at a local park. AFterwards we'd all go to a pizza joint for beer and pizza. You should have heard how these women talked. Women can get way dirtier than men.

My world is very real, just way different than yours, that is all. And no, the “dirty talk” isn’t part of my world. I would be very hurt if my hubby would make a joke, with other men, about our intimate life, and I know he would be equally unhappy if I would do the same. That isn’t to say one or two of my closest friends do not talk about it, but not in a “dirty” way.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/07/science/07conv.html

Amazing what's out there just waiting to be discovered.

Hey ann, exactly how far is the farthest you've lived from where you were born?

I was born at the Ephrata Community Hospital. If you are referring to where I was raised from birth, 3 miles. I lived in the same township all my life. What does that have to do with anything? Does that put me in the "stupid" category, or something? I can't help where I was raised and I can't help that my hubby already had an established business when we married, in the same area, and wanted to live in the vicinity.

Ann, I posted:

And you replied:

You answered my question in my previous post. You have not lived in the real world.