The American Flag And Good's Store, To shop or not to shop there, that is the question Options

[Maffimuk]

PART 1
I arranged these in order....for your information......

Just so you know...this is a variety, hardware, gift, fabric, everything store. pleasant people, they usually have an ad in the local Merchandiser every week. Personally I think their explanation is 'Whimpy' but it theirs....... and our choices......I know mine!
1. NO American Flags Sold Here!!

Hello Everyone,

On Saturday, I wandered into the Good's Store in East Earl, Pa (Next to Shady Maple Market) link:
http://www.goodsstores.com/index.php My intent was to pick up some things for the house as I do often at hardware stores (this is also an Ace Hardware franchise, BTW) along with some new American Flags for our property in light of the approaching September 11th 2001, 8 year anniversary.

After looking for some time, I inquired as to where they (US Flags) were kept. The clerk and then the manager's answer astounded me.

I was told, "..we don't sell those here and we never will" "You won't find THOSE here.." the little girl at the register said as she wrinkled her nose.




PART 2
I was confused so I pressed further and asked why.

I was told firmly by the manager Dave Musser that [b]"we are a conservative Christian store and we don't take sides, having American flags does that"

He echoed what the female cashier said when I said "sides to what?" and answered : "That would be patriotic and we don't get involved in the whole state and country thing"

When I reminded him that he operates a business in America and relies on Americans to purchase his "Goods" and that Americans are in harm's way NOW protecting his rights to worship freely and sell his "Goods" in a capitalistic and free society, he said: "that may be, but we're not part of that".

Oh really?, I said.
When I asked who owned the operation he reluctantly told me a gentleman by the name of Burkholder and those are his policies/beliefs.

I left the $66.00 worth of merchandise at Customer Service.

So, in closing, if you are a Veteran , a patriotic American, or just a concerned citizen wondering what is happening to this once great country in the name of political correctness or simple Blame America First mindset, this deserves a little attention and quite possible heeding the advice I received on Saturday when I was told: "No one forces you to shop/come in here.."

Regards,


[/b]

PART 3



2. since she couldn't believe it...my sister called:

I called Good's Store to verify this email. It is TRUE, they do NOT sell American flags for the reasons stated. I cannot believe it. Please call them and ask!! I will never purchase from them again. They have stores in Ephrata, Shafferstown, Quarryville and East Earl.

3. I couldn't believe it...I emailed:

I love shopping at your store....however I heard some disturbing rumors that you refuse to carry or sell any American Flag/supplies. Is this true? I cannot believe that someone who claims to be a Christian would do business in a country founded on Christian principles and operate this way. I hope you can deny this rumor and set things straight.

I will wait for your reply.

Dennis,
Thank you for shopping at Good's Store. Good's Store does not sell American Flags and our response to why we do not sell the American Flag stems from the position of the Anabaptist faith (Mennonite, Amish, etc.) which hold to the belief and interpretation of New Testament teaching of love for enemies, nonresistance, non-participation in war. (Matt.5:38, 39; Jas.5:5, 6; I Peter 3:13-18.) Because the flag often represents support for the military cause as the solution to world problems for that reason the owners of prior generations and the present generation of owners have chosen not to sell the flag.
We feel it a privilege and blessing from God for the freedoms we enjoy and feel it our duty to support our civil government in following its laws and paying taxes where not in conflict with our interpretation of the Bible and teachings of Jesus Christ. We also acknowledge that by choosing this as our faith and conviction we may have to suffer for our faith if God chooses it to be so. We desire to live as faithful followers of Christ in our community according to our interpretation of the Bible.

Sincerely,
Dave Bauman
Marketing Mgr.



The above was a chain email sent to me by a friend. I don't really know what to think about it, but I was pretty shocked. On one hand, as a veteran, I thought they had brass ones for not selling a flag my family and fellow country men/women have fought so hard for. On the other hand, they have a right to believe what they believe, the freedom of religion.

I thought I might share this with my fellow posters. Tell me what you think.

[notveryhow]

Wow. that's impressive. Nothing like living your faith.

I shop the Quarryville store. I think I might buy my boots and jeans early this year.

[reese]

Plenty of religions take that position. They could have been a bit more diplomatic about it initially. However, if you served as a veteran, than you should know that your service didn't come with strings attached, i.e. you didn't serve only to come back and make people feel under obligation to you for your service. Your service was in part to insure the freedoms of everyone, right? It should be more important that people get to exercise their freedoms, not that they all conform to your expectations (in this case, that they sell flags).

A flag can easily be purchased elsewhere. Freedom isn't as easily obtained. Did you fight for a flag, or what it stood for? The Goods might consider flags idolatry in addition to taking a political stance. Both would violate their beliefs.

There are lots of people who would sell you a flag who would also be tax cheats, sell you inferior goods, try to charge you unfairly, etc. With whom would you rather do business? An honest man who's trying to live by his faith, or someone who will do anything for a buck?

JMO.

[Maffimuk]

Plenty of religions take that position. They could have been a bit more diplomatic about it initially. However, if you served as a veteran, than you should know that your service didn't come with strings attached, i.e. you didn't serve only to come back and make people feel under obligation to you for your service. Your service was in part to insure the freedoms of everyone, right? It should be more important that people get to exercise their freedoms, not that they all conform to your expectations (in this case, that they sell flags).

A flag can easily be purchased elsewhere. Freedom isn't as easily obtained. Did you fight for a flag, or what it stood for? The Goods might consider flags idolatry in addition to taking a political stance. Both would violate their beliefs.

There are lots of people who would sell you a flag who would also be tax cheats, sell you inferior goods, try to charge you unfairly, etc. With whom would you rather do business? An honest man who's trying to live by his faith, or someone who will do anything for a buck?

JMO.

Very True, Reese, very true.

[gp80mac]

I'm sure Walmart will sell you a flag*


*= made in China.

[eaglerick]

It is also why many churches would not have an American flag in their sanctuary. I commend the Good Stoores for living their faith and also the men and women who have made it possible for all of us to live ours.

[citydweller]

I thought I might share this with my fellow posters. Tell me what you think.

Oy. Says a LOT. Not sure exactly what it says, but boy does it ever say it.

What do I think? (Goldi isn't going to like this)

I think that Mennonites should become more concerned with WHERE they are than WHY they are here. This isn't the 18th century and they aren't fleeing persecution.

I actually like most "Modern Mennonites" I meet. My only problem is that most are more concerned with Central America than with Middle America.

Hence your flag deal.

[reese]

Oy. Says a LOT. Not sure exactly what it says, but boy does it ever say it.

What do I think? (Goldi isn't going to like this)

I think that Mennonites should become more concerned with WHERE they are than WHY they are here. This isn't the 18th century and they aren't fleeing persecution.

I actually like most "Modern Mennonites" I meet. My only problem is that most are more concerned with Central America than with Middle America.

Hence your flag deal.

Mennonites are not the only religion that abstains from association from the flag. It has nothing to do with a lack of appreciation for one's country.

[Bigmaclender2]

Mennonites are not the only religion that abstains from association from the flag. It has nothing to do with a lack of appreciation for one's country.

Agreed. I would like to say that I respect their conviction but I still ask myself what has gone wrong with this world and this fits right into my line of questioning, IMOO.

[Harl Delos]

I think that Mennonites should become more concerned with WHERE they are than WHY they are here. This isn't the 18th century and they aren't fleeing persecution.

I think that Mennonites should do what they think they should do.

The flag is not, strictly speaking, a graven image, as it is not an image engraved on stone, but it comes close enough to make the Mennonites uncomfortable with it. It's a symbol, an icon, and people treat it with reverence, an honor which, according to God's Commandments, is reserved for God alone.

I don't agree with them, but that doesn't mean I don't respect their choice. They don't sell porn magazines at Walmart, and I don't have a problem with porn magazines, but that's not the reason I prefer not to shop at Walmart.

There's a price to be paid when you live your beliefs, and it's called persecution. Anyone who can read someone claiming that they aren't going to be doing business with Good's any more, and then asserts that the Mennonites aren't being persecuted for their beliefs is, un, well, I'll let you fill in the blank.

I've never done business with Good's before, and there aren't any convenient to me, but I think that the next time I'm up in that part of the county, I'll stop in and see if they have anything I need. Partially, it's to stand up for freedom of religion. Partially, it's to poke a thumb in the eye of intolerant jerks.

[NativeBlue]

Some additional thoughts from my time in Mennonite school and Brethren church growing up —

In addition to the pacifist beliefs, many Anabaptists consider displaying a flag to akin to idolatry (as Reese said) and this is pretty in keeping with not using many "symbols" in their worship. Quite the opposite of Catholicism, with the stations of the cross, incense, candles, stained glass windows, etc., Anabaptist churches have few to no "things" to symbolize belief. Additionally, they do not pledge allegiance to a flag or country because it is seen as putting a country above god. The first time I saw a flag in a church I thought it was the weirdest thing ever!! I think this might be where my strict belief in separation of church and state started — of course it kind of backfired on them since I'm not religious and want it kept out of my government, but I think it works both ways.

This is why I always think it's funny when "conservative Christians" say they want the Bible and Christianity in schools and in government. But the question is, WHOSE version of Christianity? or even of "conservative" Christianity? This "conservative Christian" going to buy his flag seemed quite shocked and unaware of what other "conservative Christians" believed and their practices. How would those two groups feel if their kids went to school where the other's beliefs were practiced? MAYBE that will help you realize how it would be if you were Catholic, or Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim, or *GOD FORBID* ATHEIST!

[kd1120]

hmmm.....my understanding is that by pledging allegiance to the flag, they are diverting their allegiance from God. i'll have to ask my husband what he was taught when he comes in since he grew up in a conservative Mennonite family (thank God they lightened up by the time I came along - I was shocking enough for them - had they still been in conservative mode, they may have gone crazy!). In any case, i find it amusing that the first gentleman wasn't even able to articulate what the actual reason was - "we don't take sides." that is too funny, but sadly is often the case in many religions...people don't even remember why they are following a certain rule/belief.

Secondly, although I have enjoyed shopping at Good's from time to time throughout the years, I have come to realize that the only store in which I can even remotely tolerate the staff is the one in Ephrata. Quarryville & East Earl has THE most condescending bunch of Mennonite employees that I have come across in any one place. People in retail don't need to sell what I want them to, believe what I do, or dress any particular way, but there is NO way that I am going to allow them to not treat me with the common courtesy that we should all be displaying - especially if they want my money!!

[Alexander]

I am Christian. I am also a veteran. I am a Christian first. I love my country. I am happy about being a veteran and I am very proud of those who served with me. The people who serve all over the world are a breed apart. They deserve our thanks and respect.

Good's is not being disrespectful in any way. First, it goes against what they believe. Second, they have the right to sell anything they want as long as it's legal. They also have right to NOT sell anything. Three, it's easy enough to state your dissatisfaction by not patronizing the stores.

The flag is a wonderful thing. It still chokes me up when the colors are marched by. I think of the hundreds of thousands who died all over the world. I think about those families and the sadness they had to endure. Those who were injured (mentally and physically) suffer too.

Still, it is exactly for that reason that Good's can do what they do. Name a country in the Middle East where this discussion could even happen in a public forum. I can't think of one.

The New Testament separates Christians and the government. Our Constitution does the same, contrary to what a lot of people say. The Christian cannot operate in both worlds. Jesus said that we can't serve two masters. It's true. To take a broader view of that and preclude participating at all is probably not a bad idea. I take a more moderate view, but that doesn't mean I think the Amish and Mennonites, et al are wrong.

I sure don't mean to pontificate, but this shouldn't be an issue. There is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. Look them up if you need to. There is a difference. Don't put people in the box you live in.

This post has been edited by Alexander: Sep 9 2009, 10:50 PM

[Save-the-Land]

They can believe what they want and sell what they want....but I will never buy anything from that store. They have a very arrogant attitude.

I love these hypocrites that benefit from all of the so called "terrible things" they say our country does......and they are so quick to condemn the USA and the military. These guys didn't serve in WWII either....which if there ever was a just war that was it...while they sat on their hands in judgement of brave men and women. Cowards and hypocrites!

[LicenseForMayhem]

They can believe what they want and sell what they want....but I will never buy anything from that store. They have a very arrogant attitude.

I love these hypocrites that benefit from all of the so called "terrible things" they say our country does......and they are so quick to condemn the USA and the military. These guys didn't serve in WWII either....which if there ever was a just war that was it...while they sat on their hands in judgement of brave men and women. Cowards and hypocrites!

You might want to look into the alternative service that conscientious objectors have done before claiming they just "sat on their hands".