[pml]

Saw a blurb recently saying that many preventative tests are unneccesary and could actually be turning us into patients. I know that my Grandmother and my Aunts all passed away in their late 70's. I know for a fact my grandmother never in her whole life had a pap smear or mammogram(no one touched those parts of her body but her husband)

My grandmother died from a brain anneurism that would have been impossible to diagnose at that time. She died peacefully although she did have arthritis and diabetes, she never had to submit to poking and prodding nor did she have to have poison injected into her body and lose her hair. How is it that people lived to old ages long before all these tests came up.

Now look at the false results that these tests produce. I personally paid $1000 out of pocket to prove my one in 25 pap smear was actually not abnormal, but thanks to insurance companies, I had to prove it was wrong. If I had not gone for that pap smear, I would have that $1000 and guess what 4 yrs later I am still here and still healthy.

The American Cancer society suggests women over 40 have a pap smear every three years. However if you are on birth control obgyn's insist you have a yearly pap in order to renew your BC prescription.

Mammograms- a fine needle biops has one of the highest rates of false negatives meaning women who have cancer are told their lumps are benign. However many are urged to have the lump removed anyway. Now when they remove the lump they do another biopsy. Why not simply remove the lump and then biopsy it since it is more reliable than force a woman to go for the biopsy first and then two weeks later have surgery. This is happening to a friend of mine currently. Basically if your pap comes back abnormal or you ahve even a cyst in your breast it does not belong there so instead of all these steps that cost money, get the crap out, biopsy and go from there.
I know if there was a lump in my breast, there would eb no question, the lump would be removed. Just like if I truly have abnormal cells in my cervix I want the cervix removed. You don;t let an absessed tooth fester, why would you go through life with lumps or abnormal cells anywhere in your body? What good are these tests if we can not trust the results? I ever get an abnormal pap again, I am having my cervix removed and will pay for it out of pocket but I will not live my life everyday wondering if today is the day when it turns to cancer.
If we have all these wonderful tests, why do doctors tippy toe around treatment when something shows up? How much insurance money is spent band aiding instead of curing or removing diseased tissue?

[Killjoie]

I realize this will be like shouting into the wind, but I'm going to say it anyway...

Just because you have abnormal cells on a pap doesn't mean it's the end of the world. For those of us who have DECENT insurance (because we work for "the man", and earn it)... abnormal cells means possibly a colpo, close followup, and generally speaking, those of us who are younger clear the abnormal cells on their own. It took me 2 years, but I certainly didn't need to have my cervix removed, nor would I have wanted to.

I feel sorry for you, truly. You are so miserable and unhappy that you find fault with everything, it seems. You feel that you are entitled to the lifestyle you see on your television, but you scream about anyone else who goes out and works hard to obtain their own piece of happiness. You find problems in tests that you proclaim you won't undergo anyway, gripe about restaurant portions while you've repeatedly said that television is your only source of happiness now that you refuse to patronize any restaurant that refuses to allow you to smoke. What a sad, sorry existence.

[pml]

Now wait a minute. You wanted to keep your cervix, I was willing to have mine removed at risk to me with general anesthesia etc. BUT if I have abnormal cells do I not have a right to not want to live two years going to the doc every 6 months or having colpo or cryo when removing the cervix would be once and done. Day surgery and over with. Then they can truly examine and if they find no cancer, well great, no more $200 pap smears for the rest of my life. Why should I not make that choice instead of my doctor forcing me to do what You would choose so you can have babies or for whatever reason.

I should have the choice of what works for me. It has nothing to do with money because if a doctor would have done a hysterectomy I would have paid for it. Hubby agreed. Heck it was a no lose. No more obgyn visits, if no cancer and no more birth control. However no doctor in Lancaster would even do it. Mening I had no choice because at age 44 they still insist I may want a baby someday. ARE THEY KIDDING!!!!!

I do not begrudge you your choice if you don;t mind going to the doc every 4 or 6 months. Me personally once a year is too much and I live out of town 5 months out of the year. Again I should be able to make the choice that works for me which is less doc visits and a more invasive cure. If something in my body is abnormal and I can live without it--get it out! Again this is me but I should make the decision.

[dee]

I feel sorry for you, truly. You are so miserable and unhappy that you find fault with everything, it seems. You feel that you are entitled to the lifestyle you see on your television, but you scream about anyone else who goes out and works hard to obtain their own piece of happiness. You find problems in tests that you proclaim you won't undergo anyway, gripe about restaurant portions while you've repeatedly said that television is your only source of happiness now that you refuse to patronize any restaurant that refuses to allow you to smoke. What a sad, sorry existence.

Kind of makes you want to count your blessings, doesn't she? I thank PML for telling us about her miserable attitude, makes my life look sooooo good. I like life, I don't need to put down people with kids, I've never blamed the bar when I got kicked out, I don't look forward to Fridays simply so I can drink until I pass out, I don't hate my neighbors for getting something I don't have, I never had to close my windows because of skate boarders and felt the need to complain about it, I like my country, my city, and my family. Whew! Thank you PML!!!!

[LicenseForMayhem]

I should have the choice of what works for me. It has nothing to do with money because if a doctor would have done a hysterectomy I would have paid for it. Hubby agreed. Heck it was a no lose. No more obgyn visits, if no cancer and no more birth control. However no doctor in Lancaster would even do it. Mening I had no choice because at age 44 they still insist I may want a baby someday. ARE THEY KIDDING!!!!!

pml, do you know what happens when they do a hysterectomy? It's not like having your gall bladder or appendix removed. A hysterectomy throws your hormones out of whack, and that definitely wouldn't mean you are free of gyn visits forevermore. I doubt the doctors refused because you might want a baby--they probably didn't think the risk of an "on demand" hysterectomy was medically justifiable and perhaps even considered it unethical.

[mam0412]

Saw a blurb recently saying that many preventative tests are unneccesary and could actually be turning us into patients. I know that my Grandmother and my Aunts all passed away in their late 70's. I know for a fact my grandmother never in her whole life had a pap smear or mammogram(no one touched those parts of her body but her husband)

My grandmother died from a brain anneurism that would have been impossible to diagnose at that time. She died peacefully although she did have arthritis and diabetes, she never had to submit to poking and prodding nor did she have to have poison injected into her body and lose her hair. How is it that people lived to old ages long before all these tests came up.

Now look at the false results that these tests produce. I personally paid $1000 out of pocket to prove my one in 25 pap smear was actually not abnormal, but thanks to insurance companies, I had to prove it was wrong. If I had not gone for that pap smear, I would have that $1000 and guess what 4 yrs later I am still here and still healthy.

The American Cancer society suggests women over 40 have a pap smear every three years. However if you are on birth control obgyn's insist you have a yearly pap in order to renew your BC prescription.

Mammograms- a fine needle biops has one of the highest rates of false negatives meaning women who have cancer are told their lumps are benign. However many are urged to have the lump removed anyway. Now when they remove the lump they do another biopsy. Why not simply remove the lump and then biopsy it since it is more reliable than force a woman to go for the biopsy first and then two weeks later have surgery. This is happening to a friend of mine currently. Basically if your pap comes back abnormal or you ahve even a cyst in your breast it does not belong there so instead of all these steps that cost money, get the crap out, biopsy and go from there.
I know if there was a lump in my breast, there would eb no question, the lump would be removed. Just like if I truly have abnormal cells in my cervix I want the cervix removed. You don;t let an absessed tooth fester, why would you go through life with lumps or abnormal cells anywhere in your body? What good are these tests if we can not trust the results? I ever get an abnormal pap again, I am having my cervix removed and will pay for it out of pocket but I will not live my life everyday wondering if today is the day when it turns to cancer.
If we have all these wonderful tests, why do doctors tippy toe around treatment when something shows up? How much insurance money is spent band aiding instead of curing or removing diseased tissue?

Given all the additives and hormones they put into food these days, the increase in tests make sense to me. These things can be very harmful and cancer-causing. I will say though that I had a lump in my breast that did not show up on a mammogram. It did show up on ultrasound. So, my question is, and I'm positive it has to do with cost, why don't they just do ultrasounds instead of mammograms. They seem more reliable and they sure don't hurt. But like I said, I'm sure it has to do with higher costs for ultrasounds. However, PML, you always have the option of paying for the care you want whether or not your insurance covers you which I think is what you did with the pap test. I'm not following why insurance would make you pay $1,000 to prove a pap test was wrong. Did you go back for another pap test to BE SURE it was negative and you had to pay for it because insurance wouldn't cover another one?

[Shawn]

Saw a blurb recently saying that many preventative tests are unneccesary and could actually be turning us into patients. I know that my Grandmother and my Aunts all passed away in their late 70's. I know for a fact my grandmother never in her whole life had a pap smear or mammogram(no one touched those parts of her body but her husband)

My grandmother died from a brain anneurism that would have been impossible to diagnose at that time. She died peacefully although she did have arthritis and diabetes, she never had to submit to poking and prodding nor did she have to have poison injected into her body and lose her hair. How is it that people lived to old ages long before all these tests came up.

You would do your self great service if you were to take a few statistics classes, or read a few intro to epidemiology books.

Later...Shawn

[pml]

Sweety that is a long story. I was at Planned Parenthood when my first ever abnormal pap came back and instead of suggesting like they did with every other woman I know a repeat test in 6 months they told me I had HPV even though I had never been tested for it and that I needed an immediate colposcopy. When the colposcopy came back "TISSUE INSUFFICIENT FOR EVALUATION"(i found that out when I got my records for my second opinion) they wanted to do cryo surgery. Now once again cryo surgery is a band aid. I know many women who had cryo surgery, went back in 6 months, came back abnormal and had to do leap, again the cervix stays intact. I called for a second opinion and was told by no means have cryo. Wait 6 months. Now I spent $500 on th colposcopy again came back insufficient for evaluation then because we are self insured and we were going for new insurance I ahd to pay $200 for an actual HPV test and two more pap smears all of which came back absolutely normal. Now if PP had simply said come back in 6 months it is proabbly a lab error since yopu have had 23 normal pap smears, it would have cost an extra $75. Plus I ahd to switch doctors since I no longer trust PP and now I pay double for birth control. So yes they made a patient out of me when a simple repeat test to make sure they did not make a mistake would ahve solved everything.

I know that I would rather have hormone changes and heat flashes than chemo and lose my hair and then oh yeah die. I don;t think I ever knew anyone who died from menopause but I know a lot of people who ahve died from ovarian and uterine cancer. Or gone through hell to cure it. I already have heat flashes because of depo. By the way depo makes your bosy feel like it is in menopause so again for me personally a hysterectomy would only be dangerous because of anesthesia and you probably don;t know you can insist on local anesthetic now. I know Jackie Evans a wonderful doc here in Lanc was willing to do my mom;s hysterectomy with a local however the hernia doc negated it. Trust me go to Jackie Evans if you ever get female cancer. She is the one who told me not to have cryo and she was 100% right. Talk about side effectsd. Cryo surgery can make a woman not enjoy sex for the rest of her life. You don;t do that unless you have to and you don;t have to because removing the cervix or the leap procedure is more effective.

[mam0412]

Sweety that is a long story. I was at Planned Parenthood when my first ever abnormal pap came back and instead of suggesting like they did with every other woman I know a repeat test in 6 months they told me I had HPV even though I had never been tested for it and that I needed an immediate colposcopy. When the colposcopy came back "TISSUE INSUFFICIENT FOR EVALUATION"(i found that out when I got my records for my second opinion) they wanted to do cryo surgery. Now once again cryo surgery is a band aid. I know many women who had cryo surgery, went back in 6 months, came back abnormal and had to do leap, again the cervix stays intact. I called for a second opinion and was told by no means have cryo. Wait 6 months. Now I spent $500 on th colposcopy again came back insufficient for evaluation then because we are self insured and we were going for new insurance I ahd to pay $200 for an actual HPV test and two more pap smears all of which came back absolutely normal. Now if PP had simply said come back in 6 months it is proabbly a lab error since yopu have had 23 normal pap smears, it would have cost an extra $75. Plus I ahd to switch doctors since I no longer trust PP and now I pay double for birth control. So yes they made a patient out of me when a simple repeat test to make sure they did not make a mistake would ahve solved everything.

I know that I would rather have hormone changes and heat flashes than chemo and lose my hair and then oh yeah die. I don;t think I ever knew anyone who died from menopause but I know a lot of people who ahve died from ovarian and uterine cancer. Or gone through hell to cure it. I already have heat flashes because of depo. By the way depo makes your bosy feel like it is in menopause so again for me personally a hysterectomy would only be dangerous because of anesthesia and you probably don;t know you can insist on local anesthetic now. I know Jackie Evans a wonderful doc here in Lanc was willing to do my mom;s hysterectomy with a local however the hernia doc negated it. Trust me go to Jackie Evans if you ever get female cancer. She is the one who told me not to have cryo and she was 100% right. Talk about side effectsd. Cryo surgery can make a woman not enjoy sex for the rest of her life. You don;t do that unless you have to and you don;t have to because removing the cervix or the leap procedure is more effective.

Sounds more like bad advice from Planned Parenthood than an insurance issue. I've said it before and I'll say it again. It is very much a buyer beware market out there in every industry. You really have to keep up and research issues with your own health care. I had my lump removed and tested. The lump itself was nothing other than calcification. But, they did find that I had abnormal cells - basically pre-pre-cancer. So, my doctor suggested I take Tamoxifen which is a drug they prescribe to breast cancer patients to prevent it from coming back. I researched this drug and decided not to take it because it could cause other lovely things like strokes, uterine cancer, etc. I figured why should I take it when those cells were not cancer. It's my choice, so if I end up with cancer, I guess it was my choice. But I did not follow the doctor's advice.

[ceejay]

Kind of makes you want to count your blessings, doesn't she? I thank PML for telling us about her miserable attitude, makes my life look sooooo good. I like life, I don't need to put down people with kids, I've never blamed the bar when I got kicked out, I don't look forward to Fridays simply so I can drink until I pass out, I don't hate my neighbors for getting something I don't have, I never had to close my windows because of skate boarders and felt the need to complain about it, I like my country, my city, and my family. Whew! Thank you PML!!!!

And your post is the shining example of why we read what you write with pleasure, and need an upchuck bag to read what she writes.

[A1]

And your post is the shining example of why we read what you write with pleasure, and need an upchuck bag to read what she writes.

Maybe it has something to do with the constant barrage about someone's innards.

[attachment=4257:smileyvault_puke.gif]

[pml]

MAM I want to say good for you for being what CNN's Dr Gupta calls an informed patient. I can not tell you how many people would just go on the drug because the doctor said to.

One thing I do need to say about the self insured. Last year I was told I had a torn quadracep, to stop exercising and no more dance. Now I was told this at a party by a doc and if I had good insurance I would have immediately gone in for surgery. But instead I came home and researched on the net. What I did was not baby it. I jogged all summer and it would turn black and blue but I kept going. Just last week the whole thing disappeared and I believe it is because I kept working it.

You all know about my head injury. If I had your insurance I would have immediately gone to the ER racking up costs. Now five months later we know that was unneccessary but the insurance under a good plan would ahve paid for it and filtered ddown the cost to the "group". Also when my left side went numb and even my hubby does not know this, if I had good insurance I would have gone again to the er and probably been in rehab again on the insurance dime. Instead I went on line and every night when hubby thought I was watching movies I was going up and down my basement steps on one foot to regain my strength in my left foot and low and behold without spending a dime for professionals, today I did my dance dance perfectly for the first time since November(I kept missing the left foot) Now had I gone to a doc, I might have ben better sooner but I did not NEED a doc and Ic ertainly am alive and well without one and again with my insurance $10,000 richer since the injury went through two different years(I have a calendar deductible) meaning if I have my gall bladder out Dec 25 I pay $5000, January 1 I owe another $5000 if I am still in hospital or go in for something else. So again people who ahve good insurance I find abuse it a bit. I don;t go for eye exams, or yearly blood work, or skin tests yet people whose insurance pays for it do go and hear everything it fine and insurance pays. I am just as healthy as they are. The only difference is some doc told them so and charged their insurance and their group for it.

[grieker]

So again people who ahve good insurance I find abuse it a bit.

Imagine the abuse when health care is "free" and people don't ahve to pay anything for hte service.

OMG, I walked right into that train wreck.

[crazycatwoman]

OMG, I walked right into that train wreck.

I've said it before.... It's like driving past the accident.... you just HAVE to look.

[Tootsie]

I've said it before.... It's like driving past the accident.... you just HAVE to look.

but its ok, now, we never need to go to a doctor again! All we need is the internets.