[Lancaster Online]

[GeezUS]

When THEY cross the line they need to pay the FINE.

[dragonrider]

When THEY cross the line they need to pay the FINE.

personally I don't think there should be a tax exempt status for churches.

[justplainjoe]

why shouldn't a pastor be able to endorse whomever he wants? what's the big deal?

[AngelFace]

why shouldn't a pastor be able to endorse whomever he wants? what's the big deal?

Okay, Gil, where is your indignant OUTRAGE for Barack Obama preaching from the pulpit? Where is your call for Obama's Chicago church to lose its tax exempt status after Jeremiah Wright blasted Hillary Clinton and point by point ENDORSED Barack Obama. What a hypocrite. Riverside Church in NYC has Democrats preaching politics REGULARLY -- but you have no problem with that, right? How about the Rev. Al Sharpton, and the Rev. Jesse Jackson who preach all Democrat politics all the time FROM THE PULPIT.

Prejudice, bigotry, and bias are despicable traits for a supposed "journalist", Mr. Smart and your open hostility toward Conservatives and toward conservative Christians is just as ugly and just as repugnant as racial hatred.

[dragonrider]

I agree why shouldn't preachers endorse from the pulpit but also why should they be tax exempt.

Todays NYT , there is an article on commanding officers requiring prayer before meals and before mandatory attendance meetings. So where is this supposed seperation of church and state.

[Shirley U Geste]

If you want separation, paying taxes to the government is not a good way to get it.

commentary from 1997 (could have been written yesterday)

http://www.cstnews.c...e/ChurchTx.html

"If the government is over the Church of God, I'd like to know when it took place. Someone will remind us that churches receive benefits from government such as police and fire protection, garbage pick-up, etc., but then the members have paid for those benefits as individuals."

Someone mentioned Obama. Noticed this at the end of an Obama/Dobson article:

"Obama recently met in Chicago with religious leaders, including conservative evangelicals. His campaign also plans thousands of "American Values House Parties," where participants discuss Obama and religion, as well as a presence on Christian radio and blogs."

This post has been edited by Shirley U Geste: 25 June 2008 - 10:59 PM

[Rural Conservative]

Todays NYT , there is an article on commanding officers requiring prayer before meals and before mandatory attendance meetings. So where is this supposed seperation of church and state.

Bear in mind that there is a precedent for this. Benjamin Franklin (most say he was a Deist, but I think he was more of an agnostic), recomended that the first continental congress be convened with a word of prayer.

The first amendment is designed to protect the Church from the state, not the state from the Church. Look for the words "separation of church and state" in the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights, or the Declaration of Independance and you will not find them. Those words were found in correspondence between Thomas Jefferson and the Danbury Baptist Association which occured in 1802. The correspondence was intended to clarify that the government had no right to interfere in matters of religion. The phrase "separation of Church and state" has been horribly missapropriated and missused to mean the exact opposite of what was initially intended. The phrase, originally intended to assure citizens that the government would leave them to practice their faith in peace, is now used to stifle the beliefs and practice of persons of faith.

[dragonrider]

Bear in mind that there is a precedent for this. Benjamin Franklin (most say he was a Deist, but I think he was more of an agnostic), recomended that the first continental congress be convened with a word of prayer.

The first amendment is designed to protect the Church from the state, not the state from the Church. Look for the words "separation of church and state" in the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights, or the Declaration of Independance and you will not find them. Those words were found in correspondence between Thomas Jefferson and the Danbury Baptist Association which occured in 1802. The correspondence was intended to clarify that the government had no right to interfere in matters of religion. The phrase "separation of Church and state" has been horribly missapropriated and missused to mean the exact opposite of what was initially intended. The phrase, originally intended to assure citizens that the government would leave them to practice their faith in peace, is now used to stifle the beliefs and practice of persons of faith.

When you have a commanding officer telling recruits to pray to Jesus, that is just wrong. Whats a recruit to do say Chief I am pagan I don't pray to Jesus . Yeah that will go over well. When its an officer of the government ie a commanding officer in the military then the government is interfering in the individual right to practice their own faith or no faith at all. I know you want to recruit to your Churchie Lifestyle Choice and have an Churchie Lifestyle Agenda but we still have a right not to have it forced on us by the government.

[UncommonSense]

When you have a commanding officer telling recruits to pray to Jesus, that is just wrong. Whats a recruit to do say Chief I am pagan I don't pray to Jesus . Yeah that will go over well. When its an officer of the government ie a commanding officer in the military then the government is interfering in the individual right to practice their own faith or no faith at all. I know you want to recruit to your Churchie Lifestyle Choice and have an Churchie Lifestyle Agenda but we still have a right not to have it forced on us by the government.

The thread, I believe, was concerning clergy articulating their view on the political landscape. If my pastor, in my church, offers his opinion on any candidate - it does not affect you!

[dragonrider]

The thread, I believe, was concerning clergy articulating their view on the political landscape. If my pastor, in my church, offers his opinion on any candidate - it does not affect you!

As long as your church pays taxes no problemo.

[UncommonSense]

As long as your church pays taxes no problemo.

Refer back to the articulate posting by RC for ample reason as to why your position is rubbish. Are you sure you do not have an axe to grind with churches/religion?



Consider also that the First Amendment far predated the taxation law and IRS code that is being applied to them, per my reckoning.

This post has been edited by UncommonSense: 26 June 2008 - 02:11 AM

[dragonrider]

Refer back to the articulate posting by RC for ample reason as to why your position is rubbish. Are you sure you do not have an axe to grind with churches/religion?



Consider also that the First Amendment far predated the taxation law and IRS code that is being applied to them, per my reckoning.

As the IRS code is not in the constitution we have to go by the rule that has been applied to all tax exempt organizations. If you become a partisan supporter you have no tax exempt status therefore this should apply to churches as well as any other group. If your church wishes to become embroiled in politics that is its right but tax exempt status for IRS remains that the organization be nonpartisan.

I have an axe to grind with some organizations that wish to call themselves churches/religions but are in fact political organizations. Preach the bible thats what churches are supposed to do , not pick candidates for office.

[Lysol54]

Refer back to the articulate posting by RC for ample reason as to why your position is rubbish. Are you sure you do not have an axe to grind with churches/religion?



Consider also that the First Amendment far predated the taxation law and IRS code that is being applied to them, per my reckoning.

RC doesn't know what hes talking about. It was not to protect the churth from the state. They saw what state sponsered or endoresed religions did all over Europe and didn't want that here. The religions used their influence to spread their power, many times in not so rightous ways. The founding Fathers didn't want a repeat of that here. Funny how his arguement was that it was to allow people the freedom to practice their religion, but Fundamentalists take that as, "Only if its Christianity."

If Pastors want to play politics thats fine, they should have their tax exempt status removed and pay taxes just like any other business. I mean thats what they are after all. Just another way to make money. Edit: I couldn't have said it better DR. Many of these churches now seem to have that fact lost of them. Or they try to fuse both together and push their agenda.

This post has been edited by Lysol54: 26 June 2008 - 06:55 AM

[Scout]

Quite frankly, I am more worried about what the state is doing in my personal life than I am about what it is doing in my church