[Darby]

As much as we have wanted justice to prevail, it hasn't yet. Why? Because due to the laws of succession of President, no matter how far down the list we go, there will still be a republican in the whitehouse. Why take one out and replace it with another? After this election, the third position will be held by a democrat.

It's my opinion, and my opinion only, that democratic leadership has been sitting on absolute proof against bush for quite some time. They haven't used it because using it would not only be futile and ending the nazi..err republican reign, it would make it useless for the future.

After this election, when the third space is occupied by a democrat, the information can then be used to impeach and remove from office both bush AND cheney. With President and Vice President both removed from office, the Speaker of the House becomes President. This would have taken place two years ago if not for the poor voter turnout due to the feeling that votes don't really count anymore.

What is the information? I don't know. I could be anything from the obvious of impeaching for war crimes because of the torture, the premise for war, the lies that led up to it or the poor job at orchestrating. It could involve Enron. It could involve information leaks. It may go as far as charges of treason for bush and cheney. Regardless of what it is, it is indisputable no doubt. It's surprising that the information already out there hasn't been used to attempt this, but there was the little problem of succession.

It almost makes me angry that we have waited so long to remove the common criminals from office but I guess I can understand the motivation. No use replacing one crook with another crook. By March of next year, it should be well underway. There's no use waiting after the new leaders are sworn in. It should happen quickly. Hopefully very quickly. We need those people out as soon as humanly possible to preserve what is left of our once Great Nation.

Now, more than ever, it is important to get out the vote. If we do not succeed in overcoming their tricks and obstacles of illegal election activities and make sure they do not retain enough seats to maintain control, then we are trapped for two more years in the worst period of American History since the Civil War. With the effort put forth in the next few weeks, we will effectively be able to take our country back. We can't wait for a pre-emptive attack by another country to remove our terroristic dictator, we must take matters into our own hands, vote in leaders who will take action and then stand behind them as they bring bush and cheney up on charges that will rid our country of their crooked and immoral acts. We can no longer sit back as they continue in the terroristic attacks on other nations using our brave men and women of the military to do their bidding. We can no longer sit back and watch our soldiers die for bush's power and mone. We can no longer sit back while bush alienates us from the rest of the world with his rhinestone cowboy attacks and claims of "mission accomplished". We cannot allow these horrible men continue in their war of terror against the other nations of the world, all the while turning US into what we despise the most.

I am not a terrorist and I refuse to let some rhinestone cowboy who feels he's entitled to continue making everyone in our country into one. No more war crimes, no more violations of the Geneva Convention, no more illegal phone taps, no more "no child left behind" that makes it even more difficult for the children to succeed. It is time to take our country back. It is time to restore honor and dignity to the whitehouse. It is time to mend the bridges that bush burnt down with our neighbors. Only by holding these two satanic bastards accountable for what they have done do we have a chance to redeem ourselves to the world around us for the atrocities bush and cheney have brought forth in our name. Our country has been through too much, there has been too much blood lost for the sake of freedom and justice to give up on these ideas now. We cannot allow them to continue and we cannot allow them to destroy what little credibility that the United States of America has left.

Get out the vote this year, let your voice be heard, and throw the bums out. Every last one of them needs to go if we wish to be successful. The first act of the new congress needs to be impeachment hearings and they need to follow through now more than ever. Let no vote go uncast, let no voice be unheard. Let no person be unrepresented in this next election and lets do all that is possible to ensure success.

[bigstew]

I'm Osama Bin Laden, and I approve this message!

[usedmeat]

I'm Osama Bin Laden, and I approve this message!

Because thanks to Karl Rove's trained monkey, George Bush, I'm still free. Are you?

[lee41]

History will impeach Bush/Cheney

It is MUCH MORE important to set the future course of the country than it is to rehash what Bush/Cheney have already done. People want to see RESULTS, not political paybacks.

FIRST, our goal should not be impeachment but oversight.

We need to give the Americans the truth. Have investigations. Publish findings. Expose what Bush/Cheney have done and not done. Maybe, just maybe the public would support the idea of impeachment. But having investigations as part of a plan that leads to impeachment should not be the Democrat's focus, and most of the Democrat's energies and efforts MUST be spent on the NOW and the FUTURE, not the PAST.

If the purpose of an investigation is to find dirt sufficient to impeach, that investigation will be mis-guided, just as Republican-led investigations of Clinton were. Do we stop investigating once we have 'enough' dirt? How much is enough?

How cooperative will the Bush administration be in any investigation? Unlike Clinton, Bush has and will continue to choose to hide behind the 'commander-in-chief' and 'war on terror' shields. There will be roadblock after roadblock, claims of presidential privelage, claims of classified information,

How long will all of that take? Months if not years.

And the end result? 'Victory' for the Democrats? 'Victory' for the People?

Actually, the end result of impeaching Bush would not set a legal precident that would prevent future king-like behavior. In fact, articles of impeachment without a Senate conviction could make the problems even worse!

Reigning in presidential power will take the Supreme Court, not impeachment.

SECOND, there are not 67 votes in the Senate. Republican's want nothing more than to retain the White House in 2008, and voting for impeachment would kill that opportunity. Democrat's have less than 24 months to show the American people why they should be in power. Impeachment will not do that.

Even if the Senate voted to impeach Bush, Cheney becomes President. How many laws has Cheney broken? Directly, and not under orders of Bush? How likely is it for Cheney to be impeached - before December 2008??

Of course, even then a replacement VP would be selected, and this person could be the 2008 nominee. The entire 2008 election would be about impeachment and the 'out-of-control' Democrats who 'wanted paybacks for Clinton'.

THIRD, let's assume that there are sufficient grounds for impeachment. How long will it take? Linda Tripp contacted Ken Starr 1/12/98. The Senate voted against impeachment 2/12/99 - 13 months.

Most Americans do not want more politics as ususal, or payback for Clinton's impeachment.

America's future is up to Democrats. Let's build that future, not beat up the past.

The problems we face are a result of two forces: arrogance and incompetence. Incompetence in being unable to formulate a real plan to accomplish real objectives, and arrogance in believing their plan is still correct in spite of clear evidence to the contrary.

Arrogance and incompetence, unfortunately, are not crimes. Being wrong is not a crime. We need accountability, checks and balances, and a new direction. We do not need to review history or obtain paybacks for Clinton - which is how it will be seen by the majority of people.

The calls for impeachment stem from an emotional outrage of the past. We need to focus on the future.

See also: http://robertreich.b...hey-regain.html

[Whirlwind]

Impeachment did what to Clinton? I'm hoping he's charged with violating his oath to uphold the Constitution, after he leaves office. Charged as a citizen, not a sitting president. High treason would be appropriate.

[justplainjoe]

i think the whole country knows what a ,shall we say problem, bush and cheney have been to our country, and the voters will reinforce this in less than two weeks.

that being said, do we really want to be like those petty awful people like tom delay and newt grinch?

do we really want to give demagogues like rush limpball and sean hatity the opportunity to say " aha, we told you so", or do we want to make these hatemeisters irrelevant????

do we want to stoop to their level for the temporary feeling of revenge when history will hold these people to scorn and ridicule and if bush and chesey are so indifferent as to not care, then what will impeachment do other than to divide us more.

we need national reconciliation.karl rove and bush have divided us against each other for their own personal power.they have rubbed raw the wounds that they inflicted on us and have visited us with their ruin.

is there anyone left who is fooled into thinking these guys are "christian"?is there anyone left who thinks they put the good of america above themselves???

we need leaders who will put this awful period behind us, and we need to follow the examples of the real christians as we were witness to right here, and we need to forgive them and move on and heal our country.

god won't be mocked and these people will some day pass and be held to account for what they have done.

we need to move on and repair the damage these people have done and the first step is to have on big metaphysical handshake on november 8.

we have to be bigger, much bigger, than the very small george bush jr and the very small dick cheney and the very small karl rove and the very small rummy and condi and all the others who violated our sacred trust.

impeachment will only strengthen the haters who made their fortunes on hate radio first dividing us and then feeding on that anger like yeast in a loaf of bread.lets make these horrible tin horn patriots irrelevant by refusing to be manipulated by them.
let's tell sean and rush to take their hatred somewhere else.then their 15 minutes of fame will vanish like a fart in the wind.

This post has been edited by justplainjoe: 28 October 2006 - 05:57 AM

[justaposter]

Oversight is something this administration and republican run congress is afraid of, its not the possible impeachment . One reason is if oversight is taken this administration and this republican congress will be in so much hot water with the people of this country that impeachment would be the least of their problems. It will be the fall of the republican party of today. And i believe thats a good thing . If i wasnt a democrat i would be voteing as one in this election. Its time for the people in this country to take the republican party back from the rabid right wing that owns it today. That mushroom cloud should be the blowing up of the rabid right wing in this country. This country has more to fear from them than anything in this world . They will bring about the mushroom clouds in this world if they arent stopped. Just look at Iran and North Korea the foundation for that has been allowed to expand under their lame leadership. You want to stay that course vote republican , you want to change that course throw the republican bums out.



Its that simple.

[usedmeat]

let's tell sean and rush to take their hatred somewhere else.then their 15 minutes of fame will vanish like a fart in the wind.

With the media pandering to the hate-mongers don't look for them to be ignored any time soon. Matt Laurer(R-shill) was pandering to Rush on the Today show about the Michael J. Fox scandal.

LAUER: And you brought up Michael J. Fox. Let me just ask you: You know, Rush Limbaugh started a lot of controversy when he said perhaps Michael J. Fox was exaggerating or faking these effects of Parkinson's disease in that ad promoting stem cell research. Didn't Rush Limbaugh just say what a lot of people were privately thinking?

http://mediamatters....ms/200610260012

If people were thinking that it's because the media put it out there.

Remember controversy sells so it's in the print and broadcast media's interest to stir the flames of hatred. Why do you think the media pushed for Bush's invasion of Iraq?

[Darby]

And the end result? 'Victory' for the Democrats? 'Victory' for the People?

Actually, the end result of impeaching Bush would not set a legal precident that would prevent future king-like behavior. In fact, articles of impeachment without a Senate conviction could make the problems even worse!

Reigning in presidential power will take the Supreme Court, not impeachment.

I'm not settling for mere impeachment. I want BOTH of them tried for TREASON against the United States of America. You can be sure it will set a BIG precident. It will send the message that NO president can try to take absolute power, lie to the entire country and use the US Military to exact revenge on someone. You understand that "impeachment" means to bring charges against. Those charges won't be for something small, for something that gets a slap on the wrist like....oh say...having oral sex in the oval office. These charges will be for the ultimate crime against the nation, the crime of TREASON. BOTH bush and cheney. There is evidence out there to prove them both guilty and everyone in the country KNOWS they are guilty of it. Treason carries the death penalty. Bush and Cheney will be no more. That's a damn good deterrant for any person holding such an important office.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.



If we do NOTHING, then we have approved of what bush has done. I call for Impeachment for the crimes of Treason against both bush AND cheney, their removal from office and their punishment. Then, and only then, can we repair the relationsihips with other countries he has screwed over.



TREASON is the offense for BOTH president AND vp. It's time for our OWN regime change.

I'm Osama Bin Laden, and I approve this message!

If you support the treasonous bush/cheney regime, then you may as well be Osama himself. We haven't caught Osama because Bush doesn't want us to catch him. It would put an end to the reign of terror brought on by bush/cheney.

They don't want that.

[lee41]

I never said do nothing. There should be investigations. There needs to be oversight and accountability. However, the goal cannot be impeachment. That in itself is a misplaced priority. Those in Congress swore to protect and defend the Constitution. I think it is fair to say the Constitution is under attack.

Here are the 'top ten resons to impeach' from the authors of 'The Case For Impeachment: The Legal Argument for removing President George W. Bush from office':

1. Initiating a war of aggression against a nation that posed no immediate threat to the U.S.--a war that has needlessly killed 2500 Americans and maimed and damaged over 20,000 more, while killing between 50-100,000 innocent Iraqi men, women and children.

2. Lying and organizing a conspiracy to trick the American people and the U.S. Congress into approving an unnecessary and illegal war.

3. Approving and encouraging, in violation of U.S. and international law, the use of torture, kidnapping and rendering of prisoners of war captured in Iraq and Afghanistan and in the course of the so-called War on Terror.

4. Illegally stripping the right of citizenship and the protections of the constitution from American citizens, denying them the fundamental right to have their cases heard in a court, to hear the charges against them, to be judged in a public court by a jury of their peers, and to have access to a lawyer.

5. Authorizing the spying on American citizens and their communications by the National Security Agency and other U.S. police and intelligence agencies, in violation of the First and Fourth Amendments and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

6. Obstructing investigation into and covering up knowledge of the deliberate exposing of the identity of a U.S. CIA undercover operative, and possibly conspiring in that initial outing itself.

7. Obstructing the investigation into the 9-11 attacks and lying to investigators from the Congress and the bi-partisan 9-11 Commission--actions that come perilously close to treason.

8. Violating the due process and other constitutional rights of thousands of citizens and legal residents by rounding them up and disappearing or deporting them without hearings.

9. Abuse of power, undermining of the constitution and violating the presidential oath of office by deliberately refusing to administer over 750 acts duly passed into law by the Congress--actions with if left unchallenged would make the Congress a vestigial body, and the president a dictator.

10. Criminal negligence in failing to provide American troops with adequate armor before sending them into a war of choice, criminal negligence in going to war against a weak, third-world nation without any planning for post war occupation and reconstruction, criminal negligence in failing to respond to a known and growing crisis in the storm-blasted city of New Orleans, and criminal negligence in failing to act, and in fact in actively obstructing efforts by other countries and American state governments, to deal with the looming crisis of global warming.

I agree with some of these points. I think even Liberitarians have a problem with signing statements. But defending the Constitution will need more than just impeachment. I am not sure impeachment sets a legal, binding precedent. That is what is really needed.

Clearly, there is no accountability in the Bush Administration. The only penalty ever unleashed is against those get out of sync with the Bush/Cheney agenda. Clearly, there is no desire to require accountability in the Republican led Congress.

This post has been edited by lee41: 28 October 2006 - 12:01 PM

[Darby]

I never said do nothing. There should be investigations. There needs to be oversight and accountability. However, the goal cannot be impeachment. That in itself is a misplaced priority. Those in Congress swore to protect and defend the Constitution. I think it is fair to say the Constitution is under attack.

Here are the 'top ten resons to impeach' from the authors of 'The Case For Impeachment: The Legal Argument for removing President George W. Bush from office':

I agree with some of these points. I think even Liberitarians have a problem with signing statements. But defending the Constitution will need more than just impeachment. I am not sure impeachment sets a legal, binding precedent. That is what is really needed.

Clearly, there is no accountability in the Bush Administration. The only penalty ever unleashed is against those get out of sync with the Bush/Cheney agenda. Clearly, there is no desire to require accountability in the Republican led Congress.

Sorry, had to delete some so the post would fit.





Then impeachment is only the first of many steps that include trying them both in court for high treason against the United States of America and investigating who else from the administration was involved so they can stand trial with them. Either way, it won't happen until after the election when a democrat is in line for the whitehouse. Also, with the democratic majority in the house and senate, it will be possible to ensure that the investigations take place.

It's time for this to take place. It's time for accountability to come knocking on the door and it's time for bush/cheney and company to answer. Whatever takes place must be done "by the book' and to the full extent of the Constitution. There can be no lieniency, there can be no pardons there can be no stone left unturned. Every last member of congress and the administration needs to be investigated, from both parties and every last person needs to be held accountable.

Perhaps it's time for ALL politicians to step down and replace the entire governing body in DC. Not only DC, but in every state. From accountability down to election reform, power must be taken away from those who wield too much. The government needs to return to being OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE.

No more special interest groups getting favors, no more big business tax breaks, no more of any of it.