RRTA backs tolls on I-80 Options

[Lancaster Online]

[abob]

When ever I see the RRTA bus , there are few people on it. Maybe there are not many people that ride the bus around Ephrata.

Nobody helps pay for my transportation that I am aware of. If it is not being used by enough people to make it profitable, why continue to throw money at it? Oh, that's right, it's the government that funds it. They can just raise taxes or start a new tax . ( unlike a private business).

[solitary]

Ah yes, taxes on people who don't use the service are so much easier than increasing fees for those who do.

If they raise their fees by say $0.50, how many people are going to stop using RRTA? My bet is none. Why not just raise the fees a reasonable sum to make up the short fall? Investigate cutting costs is another option. You know, like any other business would do? Oh, yeah, that would make cents. I forgot.

This post has been edited by solitary: Nov 19 2009, 09:23 AM

[gp80mac]

Nobody helps pay for my transportation that I am aware of.

So who maintains the roads you drive on? Who pays for air traffic control and security?

[mahermc]

If tolling far away interstates is such a good idea, surely all transit agencies would be thrilled to have their own local roads be tolled. This way, more people would be willing to ride buses and transit to work. Why not support tolling I-283 for Lancaster, I-81 near Harrisburg, I-83 for York, I-95 & 676 for Philly, I-376 & 279 for Pittsburgh, I-86 & 90 for Erie and so on.

Suddenly not such a good idea...

Focus on cost control and better service to get more bang for the buck and to convince people to use your services. If the need for $$ is insatiable, then promote new taxes locally to pay for local service.

[Pericles]

So who maintains the roads you drive on? Who pays for air traffic control and security?

Anyone who buys gasoline funds the roads we drive on with state and federal gasoline taxes.

People who fly pay for air traffic control and security through fees charged for airline tickets.

[gp80mac]

And we know taxes and fees pay 100%, right?


Right..........? Yeah. So your commute is being subsidized by everyone else. It's how society works.

This post has been edited by gp80mac: Nov 19 2009, 10:24 AM

[jasonbourne44]

Do they not want people to actually come into PA? We can't have our only two east-west interstates tolled without there being a downturn in the local economies of towns along I-80. It will not help PA to have no free highways that traverse the entire state, unless people wanted to start using 6 or 30 or 22. Its simple, when travelling, people will just avoid PA and opt to use maybe I-70 or I-86 and just go around Pennsylvania. Plus, its just absurd that people would support a tax that taxes other people so that people hours away can benefit! Would you people honestly like it if people in Bradford, PA benefited from a toll of 283? Cut back on expenditures in the government people!! Don't keep adding taxes, unless you think its cool to toll every highway in PA so that people who don't use those roads can be direct beneficiaries!

[Rudey Obnoxious]

If tolling far away interstates is such a good idea, surely all transit agencies would be thrilled to have their own local roads be tolled. This way, more people would be willing to ride buses and transit to work. Why not support tolling I-283 for Lancaster, I-81 near Harrisburg, I-83 for York, I-95 & 676 for Philly, I-376 & 279 for Pittsburgh, I-86 & 90 for Erie and so on.

Suddenly not such a good idea...

Focus on cost control and better service to get more bang for the buck and to convince people to use your services. If the need for $ is insatiable, then promote new taxes locally to pay for local service.

That idea is too rational. They would whine if the subsidy decreased because of toll revenue decreases, in spite of the fact that those no longer paying those tolls are paying fares because they're now riding the bus or train. Government subsudies are only allowed to increase, and the revenue to support those subsudies must come from someone else, not the population who would benefit from the service being subsidised.

When ever I see the RRTA bus , there are few people on it. Maybe there are not many people that ride the bus around Ephrata.

They never look full to me either. It wouldn't hurt to replace them with smaller busses. The "short bus" stigma only applies to school buses.

[newSpotter]

When ever I see the RRTA bus , there are few people on it. Maybe there are not many people that ride the bus around Ephrata.

Nobody helps pay for my transportation that I am aware of. If it is not being used by enough people to make it profitable, why continue to throw money at it? Oh, that's right, it's the government that funds it. They can just raise taxes or start a new tax . ( unlike a private business).

I can't speak for the Ephrata bus line but I can speak for the Greenfield, Columbia, 6th Ward, 8th Ward, and SE bus lines. These buses often get filled to the point where people must stand in the bus. Since I can't speak for the Ephrata bus, why do you think you can? Why not try utilizing the bus service? I do have a car, but I prefer to use the buses from time to time. It makes me feel closer to humanity, makes me feel as if I am doing something to reduce my carbon footprint, etc. I strongly encourage the people that have the humility to use the bus service for 1 week, to do so. You will feel much differently about this issue.

I don't believe most of you people are reading this article before getting all up in arms over it. So let me quote it for you:

Toll revenue from I-80 would be used on I-80, but money now being spent by the state to maintain and improve the interstate would be diverted to public transit systems and highways across the state, he said.

The state has cut its funding for Bus Services and has NOT cut funding for major highways such as I-80. Public Transport is merely fighting to get its funding back. Any statistics you will find on the issue will say that a public transport system leads to better quality of life. Do you want the state to stop funding the near-empty Amtrak trains? I doubt you do, because most people know that the early morning and late evening trains are filled with business folks traveling from Lancaster to Philadelphia and thus bringing their paychecks back into Lancaster to be spent at your local shops and thus improve the quality of life here.

As for what was said about just raising the cost to RRTA riders, you really think that would make up the difference RRTA would lose in State AND Federal spending?

[stanwills]

When ever I see the RRTA bus , there are few people on it. Maybe there are not many people that ride the bus around Ephrata.

That's why I can't understand why RRTA runs those fuel guzzlers to Ephrata, New Holland and Lititz with one or two people on them. To me it would make more sense to use smaller buses. I guess that's why they don't do it, it would make sense.

This post has been edited by stanwills: Nov 19 2009, 12:34 PM

[dean]

I never though about something until someone commented on no one paying for their transportation.

Public transportation, be it train or bus, has always been a favorite whipping boy because of their need for tax revenue that is higher than fare revenue.

But I never thought about something until just now. While we all obviously pay taxes, which go to a myriad programs in local, state and federal government, taxes aimed at funding roadways, like the liquid fuels taxes (used to maintain and repair roadways) don't even come close to paying for the nations road ways.

In a way, when people say public transportation is a waste of money because it cannot maintain itself financially, neither can the public highway system.

Even with continually raising taxes for roads, they ARE deteriorating at a rate greater than the amount of tax money available to up keep them.

One of Warren Buffet's entities just bought Burlington Norther rail lines because of the rising need for freight by rail.

Within the next 10 years or so, more freight will move by rail than overland truck, which will reduce wear and tear on our nation's roads.

We move 8 times more freight by rail than Europe, and they have much higher prices on goods.

But Europe blows us out of the water for passenger rail travel, the most efficient way to move people anywhere.

Eventually, US roadways WILL reach a breaking point where it will be far cheaper to move people by bus or rail than by personal vehicle.

[Mansfield]

Their are tremendous subsidies found throughout life.
Motorized vehicles have tremendous negative externalities too long to list here.
All that "free parking" out there is being subsidized by those of us who walk, bike or take transit.
The key for public policy is Deciding what is Optimal Social Policy, and then Getting the Price Signals right.

If you don't believe in Socially Optimal Policy, then you should at least agree on Getting Price Signals correct to counter and pay for Negative Externalities, like pollution, armed forces to protect oil shipping lanes, ect.

Lets start being Proactive, rather than Reactive, as a nation, before we fall even further behind our bretheren around the world in Quality of Life!

[solitary]

Don't get me started on those pirates. I'd have half the somali shore-line removed from the map on what the pirates would think is the easiest score ever.

I can't speak for the Ephrata bus line but I can speak for the Greenfield, Columbia, 6th Ward, 8th Ward, and SE bus lines. These buses often get filled to the point where people must stand in the bus. Since I can't speak for the Ephrata bus, why do you think you can? Why not try utilizing the bus service? I do have a car, but I prefer to use the buses from time to time. It makes me feel closer to humanity, makes me feel as if I am doing something to reduce my carbon footprint, etc. I strongly encourage the people that have the humility to use the bus service for 1 week, to do so. You will feel much differently about this issue.
...
As for what was said about just raising the cost to RRTA riders, you really think that would make up the difference RRTA would lose in State AND Federal spending?

If so, it should be local revenue, not three counties over.
Unfortunately, local bus service doesn't work for me in any form or fashion. To get from my house to my work, I'd most likely need to switch at least five times and more than likely convert my commute to nearly three hours.
Also, bus service is very limited at night. I leave for work at 3:30 a.m.
Unlike say, NYC subway system, to do a similar commute, I might have to switch three times, but the express trains run at very fast speeds compared to surface street traffic, so my commute would actually be shorter.
And that's where it all comes together. If you can find a way to make it beneficial to the consumer, consumers will buy it. If like in the case of the subway, you can make it cheaper too, consumers will buy it en-mass.

I never though about something until someone commented on no one paying for their transportation.

Public transportation, be it train or bus, has always been a favorite whipping boy because of their need for tax revenue that is higher than fare revenue.

But I never thought about something until just now. While we all obviously pay taxes, which go to a myriad programs in local, state and federal government, taxes aimed at funding roadways, like the liquid fuels taxes (used to maintain and repair roadways) don't even come close to paying for the nations road ways.

In a way, when people say public transportation is a waste of money because it cannot maintain itself financially, neither can the public highway system.

Even with continually raising taxes for roads, they ARE deteriorating at a rate greater than the amount of tax money available to up keep them.

One of Warren Buffet's entities just bought Burlington Norther rail lines because of the rising need for freight by rail.

Within the next 10 years or so, more freight will move by rail than overland truck, which will reduce wear and tear on our nation's roads.

We move 8 times more freight by rail than Europe, and they have much higher prices on goods.

Europe has a tendency to increase the price of everything via taxes too. What we pay at the pump, they pay in taxes alone, if not more.
Unlike Brittan, we don't spend half our annual tax revenue keeping a handful of celebrities high on the horse either.

[greidel]

If tolling far away interstates is such a good idea, surely all transit agencies would be thrilled to have their own local roads be tolled. This way, more people would be willing to ride buses and transit to work. Why not support tolling I-283 for Lancaster, I-81 near Harrisburg, I-83 for York, I-95 & 676 for Philly, I-376 & 279 for Pittsburgh, I-86 & 90 for Erie and so on...

If they toll I-80, it will be followed by I-79 and I-81, as sure as table games follow slot machines.