[Lancaster Online]

[Artie See]

The company I work for has several hundred employees in Canada, spread out among various locations. I have personally spent a grand total of several months in Canada working with some of them. I still have regular contact with some of my co-workers located in Canada.

Their stories parallel what is reported in this article.

I clearly remember the article in one of the local newspapers some years ago where a local man with a young family had received a heart transplant, and the ongoing costs had bankrupted them. The newspaper article reported him saying that he wished he had refused the transplant and died instead, because of all the turmoil the resulting costs had created. Compare this to the experiences of the son of a Canadian friend, who pays about $100 a month for the medications he needs to keep his body from rejecting the transplanted heart he received.

[knowntome]

So the answer to healthcare and insurance that costs too much is to remove the most powerful cost-controlling influence there is, by taking the consumer even more out of the bill paying loop, and giving that restraint on cost to a government that largely doesn't care how it much it spends, and how much it wastes ?
This debate is largely ridiculous when you consider that some state(s) have reduced insurance premiums by 30 to 40 percent just by passing tort reform - something that Washington Democrats, the largest receiver of trial lawyer campaign contributions, have refused to do.
So we are supposed to go to a government takeover of healthcare because Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid don't want to give up the bucks ?
Or that the problem isn't that Medicare only reimburses a fraction of the costs, but that the problem is really the greedy insurance companies who are forced to make up the difference while reaping vast sums of immoral profits so great that it puts them 35th on the list compared to other industries overall profitability.
Lies, lies, lies.
Did anyone watch the 60 minutes story on Medicare fraud the other night ?
An FBI agent said that fraud has now surpassed illegal drugs in Miami, and one of the few people they managed to catch said that cheating the government out of millions of dollars in false claims was like taking candy from a baby.
This isn't about reform, this is about how to hide making the problem worse.

[Bouquet]

So the answer to healthcare and insurance that costs too much is to remove the most powerful cost-controlling influence there is, by taking the consumer even more out of the bill paying loop...

Yes, please don't reduce the massive POWER that I, the working guy on the company plan, has to control the cost of my insurance...I'm thinking I'll go with a 45% increase this year, you know, as a treat for the kids.

[FDR06-10]

Yes, please don't reduce the massive POWER that I, the working guy on the company plan, has to control the cost of my insurance...I'm thinking I'll go with a 45% increase this year, you know, as a treat for the kids.

Still cheaper when you look at your alternative.

[Bouquet]

Still cheaper when you look at your alternative.

Really? What alternative are you referring to?

Please note: Whatever claim you make, I will ask you to cite proof and telling me that I am stupid and not worth the time will not count as actual evidence to support your claim.

[Daisy Lee Myers]

Did anyone watch the 60 minutes story on Medicare fraud the other night ?
An FBI agent said that fraud has now surpassed illegal drugs in Miami, and one of the few people they managed to catch said that cheating the government out of millions of dollars in false claims was like taking candy from a baby.

fyi

oct 23, 09


Medicare Fraud - 60 Minutes - CBS News

http://www.cbsnews.c...entBody;housing



web link:

Medicare Fraud: A $60 Billion Crime - 60 Minutes - CBS News

"According to the FBI, all you have to do to get into this business is rent a cheap storefront office, find or create a front man to get an occupational license, bribe a doctor or forge a prescription pad, and obtain the names and ID numbers of legitimate Medicare patients you can bill the phony charges to.

"There's a whole industry of people out there that do nothing but provide patients," Waterman told Kroft.

Asked what he means by "provide patients," Waterman said, "I'm just talking about lists of patients, people's names, Social Security numbers, addresses, and date of birth. With those four things, you can bill for a patient."

Asked where Tony got his fictitious customers, he told Kroft, "They'll be people that would sell you a list of maybe $10 per patient. And I'll buy 1,000, 10,000 maybe at a time. And then you just fill in the patient's name and you send it. And then I used the same patients with the same company and then the next company I used the same patients and I kept using them, and they'll pay for the same patient every time."

Once"






http://www.cbsnews.c...ain;contentBody



message board:

"I find it more interesting that instead of announcing this as a multipart investigation, delving deeply into this very real problem, CBS chose to go for glamour and the glitz by interviewing the FBI and a criminal rather than ask the question as to who actually administers the Medicare Claims.

The government selects independent contractors to administer the Medicare Claims. Who are these companies? What was the criteria for their selection? Under whose guidance were they selected? Who are the elected officials on the oversight panels for these contractors?

Further, what relationship do these contractors have with insurance companies? What relationship do the elected officials have with lobbyists for the insurance companies?

I believe Sixty Minutes has left too many questions unasked. "

This post has been edited by Daisy Lee Myers: 27 October 2009 - 05:29 PM

[FDR06-10]

Really? What alternative are you referring to?

Please note: Whatever claim you make, I will ask you to cite proof and telling me that I am stupid and not worth the time will not count as actual evidence to support your claim.

So you pay for your coverage all by yourself then. Unless you do, you have no reason to complain.

The alternative I speak of is the millions of dollars we will all be paying for insurance coverage under the govt. plan which you so covet. Remember in all countries which have it there is still costs on top of the govt. plan if you want decent coverage. So you'll be paying higher taxes to fund the govt. plan and you or your employer will still be paying for another plan if you want coverage worth a damn.

Remember there is no proof from our govt. yet to show you! They have no damn idea how much and where the money is going to come from. The only thing they've told us is that something has got to change. According to who?

FTR, I don't recall calling you names like stupid? If I did well I'm surprised at that, you must have caught me at a really bad time? As for you being worth my time, well, you're not worth my time one bit.

This post has been edited by FDR06-10: 27 October 2009 - 05:15 PM

[Daisy Lee Myers]

text from 60 minutes..

Medicare Fraud: A $60 Billion Crime - 60 Minutes - CBS News

http://www.cbsnews.c...in5414390.shtml

[Artie See]

So the answer to healthcare and insurance that costs too much is to remove the most powerful cost-controlling influence there is, by taking the consumer even more out of the bill paying loop, and giving that restraint on cost to a government that largely doesn't care how it much it spends, and how much it wastes ?

Yes, this debate IS ridiculous. The health care industry - insurance companies, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, etc. - have had DECADES to get their act together. All they have managed to do is increase prices more and more and more and more. If they haven't gotten their prices under control by now, they never will. After all, their only incentive is PROFIT - in other words, their shareholders are far more important to them than their customers and patients.

It is simplistic to think that tort reform alone will correct our problems, when the health insurance companies themselves waste 30% or more of our health care dollars - then try to get out of paying for the health care we really need on every occasion that they think they can get away with it.

We are in EXACTLY the same situation that workplace, food, and medicine safety were about a century ago. Food safety wasn't dealt with until the government got involved. Workplace safety wasn't dealt with until tragedy after tragedy brought government regulation. Even Coca-Cola contained cocaine at one time!

To make the (often false) claim that government doesn't care how much it spends is nothing more than a distraction from the real issues. I just found out today that starting Jan. 1 I will be paying about $20 more every two weeks just for health insurance premiums (with a 20% deductible), while our co-pays will be increasing by two-thirds (family doctor from $15 to $25, specialist from $25 to $40). Our more comprehensive health insurance plan (5% deductible) will increase in cost for two people from over $160 to well over $270 EVERY TWO WEEKS.

Health care in the United States will continue to become increasingly unaffordable until the government steps in and introduces some real regulation. The longer the delay, the more painful it will become. Health care costs are already stifling our economy, far more than any government debt. Eventually, it WILL become SO painful that there will be a huge public outcry for government regulation. It might not happen this year or next, but unless the government intervenes first, it WILL HAPPEN.

This post has been edited by Artie See: 27 October 2009 - 05:27 PM

[Daisy Lee Myers]

Health care in the United States will continue to become increasingly unaffordable until the government steps in and introduces some real regulation.

"IF" the gov't is doing a great job of regulatiing "MEDICARE,"

WHY do we have FRAUD?



Medicare Fraud to the tune of $60 BILLION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



MORE than MIAMI ILLEGAL drug trade!

**********
Text from 60 minutes..

Medicare Fraud: A $60 Billion Crime - 60 Minutes - CBS News

http://www.cbsnews.c...in5414390.shtml

daisy

miami beach

This post has been edited by Daisy Lee Myers: 27 October 2009 - 05:46 PM

[Daisy Lee Myers]

"Waterman is the senior agent in the Miami office in charge of Medicare fraud. And Kirk Ogrosky, a top Justice Department prosecutor, oversees half a dozen Medicare fraud strike forces that have been set up across the country.

CBS-60 MINUTES- 10/23/09

*******************
60 BILLION MEDICARE FRAUD

"The office Kroft visited operates out of a warehouse at a secret location in South Florida and includes investigators from the FBI, Health and Human Services, and the IRS.

"There's a healthcare fraud industry where people do nothing but recruit patients, get patient lists, find doctors, look on the Internet, find different scams. There are entire groups and entire organizations of people that are dedicated to nothing but committing fraud, finding a better way to steal from Medicare," Waterman explained.



"IS the Medicare fraud business BIGGER than the DRUG business in Miami now?"

Kroft asked.

"I think it's WAY bigger," Ogrosky said.

Asked what changed, Ogrosky told Kroft, "The criminals changed."

"Sophistication," Waterman added."






http://www.cbsnews.c...in5414390.shtml

This post has been edited by Daisy Lee Myers: 27 October 2009 - 06:00 PM

[crickson]

Yes, this debate IS ridiculous. The health care industry - insurance companies, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, etc. - have had DECADES to get their act together. All they have managed to do is increase prices more and more and more and more. If they haven't gotten their prices under control by now, they never will. After all, their only incentive is PROFIT - in other words, their shareholders are far more important to them than their customers and patients.

It is simplistic to think that tort reform alone will correct our problems, when the health insurance companies themselves waste 30% or more of our health care dollars - then try to get out of paying for the health care we really need on every occasion that they think they can get away with it.

We are in EXACTLY the same situation that workplace, food, and medicine safety were about a century ago. Food safety wasn't dealt with until the government got involved. Workplace safety wasn't dealt with until tragedy after tragedy brought government regulation. Even Coca-Cola contained cocaine at one time!

To make the (often false) claim that government doesn't care how much it spends is nothing more than a distraction from the real issues. I just found out today that starting Jan. 1 I will be paying about $20 more every two weeks just for health insurance premiums (with a 20% deductible), while our co-pays will be increasing by two-thirds (family doctor from $15 to $25, specialist from $25 to $40). Our more comprehensive health insurance plan (5% deductible) will increase in cost for two people from over $160 to well over $270 EVERY TWO WEEKS.

Health care in the United States will continue to become increasingly unaffordable until the government steps in and introduces some real regulation. The longer the delay, the more painful it will become. Health care costs are already stifling our economy, far more than any government debt. Eventually, it WILL become SO painful that there will be a huge public outcry for government regulation. It might not happen this year or next, but unless the government intervenes first, it WILL HAPPEN.

Great post Artie.
You touched on a point that people often forget when debating this issue.
The fact that health care reform is about more that health.
It has as much to do with our financial situation as a country.
If our personal health care costs continue as they have, it will cripple this country financially.

"IF" the gov't is doing a great job of regulatiing "MEDICARE,"

WHY do we have FRAUD?



Medicare Fraud to the tune of $60 BILLION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



MORE than MIAMI ILLEGAL drug trade!

**********
Text from 60 minutes..

Medicare Fraud: A $60 Billion Crime - 60 Minutes - CBS News

http://www.cbsnews.c...in5414390.shtml

daisy

miami beach

Health Insurance companies have been committing fraud for decades.
The problem is that it cost the average person more to fight the insurance industry than they can afford.

[Nafram Arahndeer]

I struggle with what the answer is for our failing health-care delivery system. In some aspects it is really good, but in all areas it is really expensive. For the past 20 years and more, it has consistantly achieved increases in cost in excess of the growth in GNP. The result is that many companies and more individuals can no longer find ways of maintaining coverage.
However, there are trade-offs that are involved with increased government controls. The article points out that the local "second opinion" said that the care was what they would recommend. But the second opinion was achieved by visiting a quality physician within minutes travel, versus the six hour trip to their current caregiver. The quality of care was not the issue - the issue was the access versus the cost. I don't know that I could afford to drive from here to Boston on a regular basis for treatment any more than I can afford the family health coverage that I used to have.

[Daisy Lee Myers]

Can the U.S gov't handle healthcare???

Answer: NO, NO, NO!
*************

The gov't is "incompetent" and they think they can run a health care system on a LARGER scale...

H@LL, their adventure with MEDICARE($60 BILLION FRAUD) proves they sux at regulation and management on a smaller scale.

SO, they don't get my seal of approval for a national health care system!








AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR SUXS TOO!!!

FLASHBACK: Rick Scott's Columbia/HCA Was Fined $1.7 Billion For Defrauding Medicare | Media Matters Action Network

http://mediamattersa...og/200906240003







daisy

miami beach

This post has been edited by Daisy Lee Myers: 27 October 2009 - 09:01 PM